960 pnp switch test?

Hi all,

Volvo 960 Wagon 1996.
I am having a what I think is a problem with the Neutral Safety Switch. What I wanted to know is if there is any way I can test this or describe the symptoms to be more confident that this is in fact the problem. The symptom is essentially that you jump in the car, turn the key and all the idiot lights light up on the dash but there is no juice getting to the starter. No clicks that I could hear either. After playing around with the shifter moving it up and down the range I was finally able to get it to start and it started up strong and fine as usual. This has happened once last night but once was enough.

What I am wondering is if there is any way I can tell if this switch or its setting or cleaning is most probably my problem. For example if this is the problem would it make sense that when this happens I could put the shifter in neutral and start the car right up? I was not being terribly scientific last night when this happened at a very inconvenient time but I know that one thing I did do was move the shifter around through the gears and wiggle it in park.
I have read alot about another solenoid/switch that will keep you from moving the lever out of Park but that is not my problem. I have also read that if
this PNP is the problem I can remove it and clean it and have a pretty good chance of getting it back into working order. It is on the right side of the transmission and close enough to the exhaust that it can get heat damaged? You can remove it by working around the transmission cooler lines and the exhaust pipe?

Thanks very much,
Jim Lee

I'd replace it or take in off and clean it at least. It sounds like that is exactly the problem you had. Sticky PNP switch. It is kind of a pain to get at it without dropping the exhaust but it can be done if I recall correctly. It's pretty easy to drop the front half of the exhaust, though.

BTW, a new aftermarket PNP switch from FCP Groton is $89. Buy something else you need from them at the same time making the cost over $150 and you get free shipping. Cheap insurance.

Thanks much Flying Tog. I have heard that I might have top move or remove a transmission line and loosen the exhaust to get at this switch.
Just to clarify this is a separate issue from the infamous 'shift/lock/can't get the darn thing out of Park' problem right? I am seeing all kind s of information on that issue. Also as a side question, was that shift/lock thing a recall item....or just a TSB?

Thanks very much,
Jim Lee

sasjzl said:

Thanks much Flying Tog. I have heard that I might have top move or remove a transmission line and loosen the exhaust to get at this switch.
Just to clarify this is a separate issue from the infamous 'shift/lock/can't get the darn thing out of Park' problem right? I am seeing all kind s of information on that issue. Also as a side question, was that shift/lock thing a recall item....or just a TSB?

Thanks very much,
Jim Lee

Click to expand...

Don't rule out the ignition switch...also know to fail.

)

sasjzl said:

Thanks much Flying Tog. I have heard that I might have top move or remove a transmission line and loosen the exhaust to get at this switch.
Just to clarify this is a separate issue from the infamous 'shift/lock/can't get the darn thing out of Park' problem right? I am seeing all kind s of information on that issue. Also as a side question, was that shift/lock thing a recall item....or just a TSB?
Thanks very much,
Jim Lee

Click to expand...

http://www.swedishbricks.net/700900FAQ/Transmission-Auto1.html

the "shift interlock" problems are rife..but *NOT* what you're experiencing...
if I were you (and you should be glad yer not me! ) I'd go ahead as the
"FLYING TOG" hath suggested and order up a new one....

a short story here:
When SWMBO's 1991 244 was first purchased the shift mechanism was a bit like
stirring a pot of thick stew (the stick would wobble about and describe an "ovoid
orbit" around the shift housing)...turns out some asshat had gone after the "shift
interlock mechanism" w/HUGE crowbar....
six months later the neutral safety switch went flaky...I looked up the wiring diagram
and then made myself a "little loop" of 14 gauge wire and bypassed the damned thing
all together...but then again...I married her BECAUSE she *IS* "smarter than shift lever"

at some point in the next few months - one of my "partz buds" is gonna come
across a "complete shift mechanism" for a 1991 244 ( and , YES - SADLY, it *IS*
unique to the car...THANK YOU VOLVO..aaarrrggghhhh... )
then I'll be able to "reconnect ALL of the wires where they SHOULD be"

Will it start if you place the shifter in neutral?

sasjzl said:

Just to clarify this is a separate issue from the infamous 'shift/lock/can't get the darn thing out of Park' problem right? I am seeing all kind s of information on that issue. Also as a side question, was that shift/lock thing a recall item....or just a TSB?
Jim Lee

Click to expand...

They are one in the same, both symproms of a bad PNP switch, or could be. As mentioned it could be the ignition switch and not the PNP switch, especially if you don't have any of the shifter lock-up problems usually associated with the PNP switch. The 960 seems prone to this problem, and a usuall replacement interval is 100k miles at best. No there isn't any recall or TSB, they are just a bad design since incorporated in the early '80's on all Volvo AT's.

To verify the PNP is or is not the problem you can put a test jumper wire into the connector to bypass the ignition lock-out function of the transmission. The connector is under the front driver side console side panel. Remove the under dash panel and then the front section of the center console, pull back the carpet and it should be there.

To verify the PNP is or is not the problem you "....can put a test jumper wire into the connector..."

Thanks very much.
Can you give me more detail on where the connector is located? I get the removing the drivers side console panel but I am not sure what the front section of the center console would be. Like the entire simulated walnut front to the radio/ashtray etc?

How many wires on the connector or will it be obvious to me by following it to the transmission?
What color wires do I jump from and to?

Thanks very much,
Jim Lee

The 960 neutral safety switch is not on the shifter, it is on the trans.

lummert said:

The 960 neutral safety switch is not on the shifter, it is on the trans.

Click to expand...

AW30/xx trans:
http://www.volvopartswebstore.com/images/parts/volvo/fullsize/GR-65219.jpg
part number 33

http://www.k-jet.org/documents/greenbooks/900-series/?browse=Section+4+-+Power+Transmission

download CE14807

*FLASH EDIT*
go here: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=207465
read post #1 (PLEASE heed the "rules"
scroll down to post # 19 for directions on "how to get there"
and you can grab the wiring stuff you need!

lummert said:

The 960 neutral safety switch is not on the shifter, it is on the trans.

Click to expand...

But the connector is located right where I said, under the front drivers side of the console.

Front section comes out with two screws on each side, under each L & R under dash panel when removed, and two more screws under the small rectangular cover at the bottom of the front section of the console (lowest portion).

It is worth the $20 to order the 960 body and interior greenbook to do some of the panel removal.

Sorry, can't recall the exact wire color or connector pins, but there is a link to schematics above to find out.

Hey guys - SIL's '96 960 is having intermittent starting problems - when it won't start, the engine doesn't turn over at all. Sounds like the PNP switch, from what I have read. I also saw a few posts discussing the ignition switch - how can I tell if it is the ignition switch OR the PNP switch? I guess if she can wiggle the shifter a bit, slide it through the gears a few times, and successfully start the car, it HAS to be the PNP switch?

I can't really look at the car (don't live nearby), and her mechanic couldn't "reproduce the problem". So, of course I get the question.

From reading both members posts about starting problems, I would say it is the PNP switch. As Pete said, it is a common problem on the electronic shift transmissions. I have had to replace several of them on the 960/S/V90s I've bought and resold. You cannot easily replace the switch without removing/lowering the exhaust. The switch will not slide off of the shift shaft with the exhaust in the way. You may be able to pull the bolts out of the trans cross member and push the trans to the side far enough to get it off. I know I got one off once without dropping the exhaust. I can't remember exactly what I did. The darn switch failed right when someone was on their way to pick up a car they bought and I had 45 minutes before they got here to change the switch. I was a bit stressed at the time.

Okay thanks I let her know, and she forwarded the info I gave her on to her mechanic.

2manyturbos said:

The darn switch failed right when someone was on their way to pick up a car they bought and I had 45 minutes before they got here to change the switch. I was a bit stressed at the time.

Click to expand...

Good thing you had one in stock

I've had luck with removing, cleaning and reinstalling 2 pnp switches on my 960's without releasing the exhaust so chances are it can be done.

wckd said:

I've had luck with removing, cleaning and reinstalling 2 pnp switches on my 960's without releasing the exhaust so chances are it can be done.

Click to expand...

I had the same problem on my 93 960. Easier just to bypass the stupid PNP switch-there's a post here somewhere about doing that. Just make sure your teenage son doesn't leave it in gear when he parks it like mine did!

Wish they sold the 960 with a standard trans over here

Great cars other than electrical gremlins

i've swapped mine out last night in under 1 hour, very easy but after putting the new one in i still get the arrow in cluster and W/E flashing intermittently.

what else should i check out ?

symptoms :

no start in P
car runs in 3rd and 4th gear only
flashing arrow and W/E

Pull codes with VIDA.