home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2019, 09:30 AM   #26
mikep
The MP
 
mikep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
Default

I used to be on ecomodder. Look around there, lots of ideas.

As stated above, it's a square car. the coefficient of drag is high, and it's bigger than econo cars. (cd x area = drag).

The most overlooked (underlooked?) area is the underside of the car. Look at the nicer Lexus and Toyota cars for inspiration.
__________________
mikep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 01:50 PM   #27
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep View Post
I used to be on ecomodder. Look around there, lots of ideas.

As stated above, it's a square car. the coefficient of drag is high, and it's bigger than econo cars. (cd x area = drag).

The most overlooked (underlooked?) area is the underside of the car. Look at the nicer Lexus and Toyota cars for inspiration.
Look under a 1967 Saab 96 for amazement....CD around .32 then...smooth and clean floor the full length just aft of the sump (front sump)...

I always am baffled when people claim they wanna spend thousands and thousands of dollars pouring money into some bizarre pet-car to get a XX% decrease in fuel consumption......who overlook one glaring--and really simple---way to increase energy utilization by squeezing out more energy out of the gas...higher compression...
A STRONGER pop.
If every time the motor POPS it does more work, then a lighter foot on the gas is needed to do the same thing...

Can you splain it better Mike? You deal with kids who lack basic understanding and maybe you could splain it so its clearer to those types here..Cause to me this is simple..too simple maybe..(So simple in my book it doesn't need explanation....yet evidently somehow people think spending $8,968 for an engine on the ground, a couple of thousand more modding and installing, ass-ploding their gearbox from the massive torque and fixing that..so "save" 10% of a gallon per mile seems nothing short of insane...)
__________________
John Vanlandingham/JVAB Imports
Sleezattle WA, USA

--> CALL (206) 431-9696<----

www.rallyrace.net/jvab

www.rallyanarchy.com

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

"When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him: 'Whose?'"
— Don Marquis
John V, outside agitator is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 09:55 PM   #28
mikep
The MP
 
mikep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
Default

That is supposedly why Rudolph Diesel wanted to crank up the compression. Efficiency.
There are mid-size drone aircraft engines that run on gasoline but once started, are diesels. Insanely efficient.
More chamber turbulence, and strong push for a small amount of fuel.
As John suggested, it pops hard.

For huge torque at the expense of fuel, cramming air in first with low compression makes a loooonnnger high pressure curve.
mikep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 11:22 PM   #29
tintintin
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Mine has 23:1 CR. Does that count?
tintintin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2019, 05:09 PM   #30
quillc
yv1a.com
 
quillc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kitsap, Wa
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
So simple in my book it doesn't need explanation....yet evidently somehow people think spending $8,968 for an engine on the ground, a couple of thousand more modding and installing, ass-ploding their gearbox from the massive torque and fixing that..so "save" 10% of a gallon per mile seems nothing short of insane

He asked what was possible, not what made the most sense.

What makes the most sense (largest rate of return) is to simply give the car a good stage zero, run high (ish) pressure in the tires, keep and empty trunk, and drive with the windows up.

This forum is largely about the biggest fun factor/what's possible, not what makes the most sense.

If we all did that, we would all drive beige Honda accords that we bought used with less than 100K on the clock. Drive it with the normal maintenance until the first major mechanical failure. Then go out and get another one with less than 100k and sell the broken down heap to some ricer enthusiast kid for more than it is worth.

No one drives a 25 year old car because it is 'sensible'. They are either crazy (as we all are on this forum), or poor.
__________________
Chris
www.yv1a.com
quillc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2019, 05:28 PM   #31
mikep
The MP
 
mikep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
Default

Go back to Maintenance, noob.
“And” empty trunk might give a 1% increace in town. Zero increase on the highway. And no tools to fix your heap.
This is performance and mods. Buying a civic is not a mod.

I for one welcome our homemade air dam overlords.
mikep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2019, 05:32 PM   #32
mikep
The MP
 
mikep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
Default

Also, a 16v head would be way better if you crank up the compression.
Thin gear oil helps.
Lean fuel maps and more timing (also best with a better combustion chamber).
Wheel skirrrrrrts.
mikep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2019, 06:15 PM   #33
blkaplan
50 shades of beige
 
blkaplan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Default

lots of improvements that can be made on the underside of our bricks to inch up the mpg.

Also, different final drives, cams, etc... can make a difference.

if you have an auto... going to a real 5 spd like a m47 will provide a big jump.
__________________
www.BEIGEPOWER.com
Kaplhenke Racing Facebook
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKratoz View Post
The only safe bet is Ben.©
blkaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2019, 08:41 PM   #34
bumblebeeman
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Petaluma
Default

Guys these are great tips. Honestly I thing an EV brick would be freaking awesome.

I like doing mods to my brick that also help it run better and go faster, and im poor so id rather not get 15 MPG. I first got this wagon 5 years back from an euro mechanic, had been sitting, the radiator had cracked letting tranny fluid in the coolant system, and it was leaking from windshield and rear windows. First thing I did was take out the aw71 put an M46 in it. then I put a new windshield got some 15inch novas, and replaced all the worn suspension bushings and other rubber(Coolant system, and fuel return line, SS brake lines, rubber gaskets around wagon windows and new window scrapers..) I pretty regularly get 25mpg but do mostly highway driving. It does seem to be running a little rich as it seems to smell like fuel outside the car when running.


It seems adding a 2.4 chipped, wasted spark, 16V turbo, and a T5 would get me improved mpg if I got a smaller turbo and was not having a total lead foot?

Thanks!
bumblebeeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2019, 11:14 PM   #35
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quillc View Post
He asked what was possible, not what made the most sense.

What makes the most sense (largest rate of return) is to simply give the car a good stage zero, run high (ish) pressure in the tires, keep and empty trunk, and drive with the windows up.

This forum is largely about the biggest fun factor/what's possible, not what makes the most sense.

If we all did that, we would all drive beige Honda accords that we bought used with less than 100K on the clock. Drive it with the normal maintenance until the first major mechanical failure. Then go out and get another one with less than 100k and sell the broken down heap to some ricer enthusiast kid for more than it is worth.

No one drives a 25 year old car because it is 'sensible'. They are either crazy (as we all are on this forum), or poor.

Well fortunately raising dynamic compression is one of the simplest and cheapest and do-able things one can do with direct fun results...performance and efficiency are 2 sides of the same coin...
If we make a n.a. motor that has 175 wheel HP and is quick, that same motor gives better Em Pea Gees if we poke along like a old fart..And I've built scores and scores of n.a. motors that have done just that.....albeit a cruder all cast iron thing with pushrods..
That motor..the Ford V4 1.7 came with a little tiny 34mm 1 bbl carb with like 26mm venturis, and for USA 8.0:1 compression 37mm intakes and 31mm exhausts with a horrible 1.25" exhaust and allegedly about 65hp..
Doesn't sound like a lot...but with a car weight of about 1945 lbs and final drive of 4.88 it was fairly fun..and quicker than 240 n.a. things...
To "go down the road" on steady cruise at 60 mph they did around 27 mpg...and that was maybe 1/2 throttle.


My "normal package" (way back in about 1986) was to bore 'em 0,8mm and go zero deck or +0,1 out, 1mm gasket, 42mm intakes and 36mm exhausts (straight outta Ford 2,9 V6), a 2bbl manifold with a 38x38 synchronous carb called Weber DGMS, minimum 10,85:1 compression and a middling Saab "rally cam (about 310* duration and 11.4mm lift)...and a Simons 044-K 2" exhaust...

These motors routinely gave about 31-32 mpg but nobody cruised 55-60...most cruised 70-75mph....


Sure around town like here in Sleezattle nobody ever showed any self-control... and they'd blast up hills full throttle and shifting up cause they could..They became maniacs, big saucer eyes and droolin with tongues hanging out...If i ever brought up in-town mileage the answer was always the same "Fúckit!!! I don't care about MPG anymore, its just too fúckin fun blasting up hills....This thing LANDS sooooo nice....'' followed my pervy laughter.... One older mellow Alaska fisherman told me he was doing 110-120 the whole way up to Steven's Pass Ski Area...mostly on snow..(he had studded tires and a LSD in the box...and his wife in the car)...

Myself I've done coast to coast trips in the mid 90s with "the normal spec" and got a nice 31mpg cruising mostly 70 or a bit more (mid winter and around the top of all the Great Lakes so curvier road than straight I-5)

So if you have any self-control co-ordinated well thought out increased engine torque, increased BMEP can yield real world increases in both fun and MPG for a shít-ton less money and work than buying and paying somebody to install and make work some diesel for thousands or some ridiculous electric car powerplant transplant...

Presuming that the intention actually is to have a done project and not a TB Fap-fest.
John V, outside agitator is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2019, 11:45 PM   #36
iHateVolvoPeople
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Midwest
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quillc View Post
He asked what was possible, not what made the most sense.

What makes the most sense (largest rate of return) is to simply give the car a good stage zero, run high (ish) pressure in the tires, keep and empty trunk, and drive with the windows up.

This forum is largely about the biggest fun factor/what's possible, not what makes the most sense.

If we all did that, we would all drive beige Honda accords that we bought used with less than 100K on the clock. Drive it with the normal maintenance until the first major mechanical failure. Then go out and get another one with less than 100k and sell the broken down heap to some ricer enthusiast kid for more than it is worth.

No one drives a 25 year old car because it is 'sensible'. They are either crazy (as we all are on this forum), or poor.
I love this
__________________
Feedback Thread
Current:
93' 244T M47
93' 245 M47
90' 744 AW70
94' M-Edition Miata 5 speed, 93k
95' Camry A140E, 246k
91' 745 Regina AW701, maybe future turbo project
90' 745T AW71
Past (Volvos):
80' 242gt M46
88' 245T M47
92' 945T AW71
94' 945T AW71





People think Volvos are good cars until they drive cars that are actually good.
iHateVolvoPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2019, 11:04 AM   #37
mikep
The MP
 
mikep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PromiseRing View Post
I love this
How many mpg is that mod worth?
mikep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2019, 11:07 AM   #38
mikep
The MP
 
mikep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
Default

One of the interesting things I read back in the day:
A slight nose-down ride is preferred, even with a perfectly smooth underside.
If the car is perfectly level, the underbody friction causes the air to "stack up" toward the rear, causing higher pressure and more drag.
mikep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2019, 12:51 PM   #39
lummert
Board Member
 
lummert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep View Post
One of the interesting things I read back in the day:
A slight nose-down ride is preferred, even with a perfectly smooth underside.
If the car is perfectly level, the underbody friction causes the air to "stack up" toward the rear, causing higher pressure and more drag.
So taking 500 pounds of spare parts and tools out of the back of my 88 765 will get me 2 more mpg?
__________________
Trying to understand stupid people is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.
lummert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2019, 05:52 PM   #40
quillc
yv1a.com
 
quillc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kitsap, Wa
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lummert View Post
So taking 500 pounds of spare parts and tools out of the back of my 88 765 will get me 2 more mpg?
Maybe. Of course when the 30 YO computer dies and you are stranded on the side of the road, the cost of the tow and sheer aggravation will likely offset the increase in efficiency.

I have a (tested) spare computer and ignition module in the trunk. I have a spare set of belts, cap/rotor/wires/plugs, a spare injector (just cause I had an extra), O2 sensor (changed it on the side of the highway one day), tested used AMM, some various bolts and a few things I'm forgetting. I also carry enough tools in the trunk to (mostly) fix anything that goes wrong.

My friends at work make fun of me because the tools in the trunk are likely worth more than the car. I usually retort by asking how much their car payment is.

They then ask me car advice when they have car trouble - which I'm happy to give.

In the end, I keep driving my Frankensteinian creation because I enjoy working on cars, and this vehicle is my brand of wacky.

As far as the ecomod crowd goes, I have nothing but respect for them. They are every bit the enthusiast that any of us are. Some of the things that they come up with are down right innovative, but I still think that the Brown's Gas thing is weird and I refuse to put side skirts over my back wheels.
quillc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 12:49 PM   #41
955IsAlive
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: MN
Default

You can get an MPG gain (Via tune for partial throttle\cruise) if you go catless and are willing to release NoX like an asthmatic hater.
955IsAlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2019, 11:50 AM   #42
ovlov760
Board Member
 
ovlov760's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Midwest - IL
Default

Sell the 240 and buy a C30 with a 6MT. It'll do 30+ MPG easily.
ovlov760 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.