• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

cutting or rolling?

Harlard

Harlard

Hurlurd?Harland?Bueller?
300+ Club
Joined
May 11, 2007
Location
Niketown, OR
going to throw on some 18x8" ET43 wheels with 225/40 tires on the hoopt sooner or later (sooner rather than later i hope), and have a fair bit of questions:

fisrt of all how the **** can i get a decent amount of rear track and why the **** did volvo decide it would be a good idea for 240 rear arches to have apexes that sit half a foot forward of the rear axle centerline?!

second of all, it seems like i wont be able to space the rear wheels to a track width that will come close to the front, i was thinking 25mm or less up front and 32-40mm in the back. Problem is, i threw a Canisto (17x7, ET43, 225/45) in the back to see if my clearance calculations are alright. they arent. With a 32mm spacer the thing would not fit with a rolled fender!!

so now what would you suggest to make those things fit in a wheel arch? cutting the fender lip? throwing in a scissor jack in the back of the arch and space the thing out? i want to do this with the least amount of bodywork possible...
 
Do you want more understeer?

28mm front, 33mm rear adapters will work with 225/40/18 on 18x8 and trimmed fender lips in the rear. It should go very low almost to the point of tucking the wheel with a trimmed lip leaving about 1/4" of the lip. Roll it flat if you need a little more, or shift the axle if one side is rubbing.

With my rear quarters pulled about 1.5", I could conceivably run 18x8 at around -30mm offset. So if you want to run 75mm adapters and push the wheels WAY out, it can be done with a mild fender pull. But it's utterly pointless to pull the fenders just to run 8" wheels pushed way out which will increase understeer, unless you're just going for the look, in which case this isn't a 'performance' topic at all.
 
I agree with towery.

do you have an adjustable panhard bar? it could be that the side that you put the canisto on was pushed out further due to lowering.

what sort of springs are you running, and what are you looking to achieve from putting these wheels on? better handling, or better looks?
 
Best bet is to remove the arches, modify to taste, and reinstall...

Otherwise do what mike and rob have done and documented somewhere- drill out the various spotwelds that hold the inner and outer fender lip sheetmetal together and the spot welds along the buttcheek etc. Get the outer skin seperated and yank it out basically.
 
towerymt said:
Do you want more understeer?

28mm front, 33mm rear adapters will work with 225/40/18 on 18x8 and trimmed fender lips in the rear. It should go very low almost to the point of tucking the wheel with a trimmed lip leaving about 1/4" of the lip. Roll it flat if you need a little more, or shift the axle if one side is rubbing.

With my rear quarters pulled about 1.5", I could conceivably run 18x8 at around -30mm offset. So if you want to run 75mm adapters and push the wheels WAY out, it can be done with a mild fender pull. But it's utterly pointless to pull the fenders just to run 8" wheels pushed way out which will increase understeer, unless you're just going for the look, in which case this isn't a 'performance' topic at all.
Click to expand...

i thought that an increase in track would yield better steady state grip, if it's the case that having a wider rear track will negatively impact the fun factor of the car's handling i will just go with the track widths you suggested

stylngle2003 said:
I agree with towery.

do you have an adjustable panhard bar? it could be that the side that you put the canisto on was pushed out further due to lowering.

what sort of springs are you running, and what are you looking to achieve from putting these wheels on? better handling, or better looks?
Click to expand...

i will install an adjustable panhard bar and maybe cut a coil off my springs all around. With the nebulas i want to get better turn-in and braking, and of course a better look! i don't think my car will perform better with big heavy wheels like these compared to a set of hydras with decent rubber on, but right now i only have a set of coronas on 195/75 rubber so anything else will be a performance upgrade

Captain Bondo said:
Best bet is to remove the arches, modify to taste, and reinstall...

Otherwise do what mike and rob have done and documented somewhere- drill out the various spotwelds that hold the inner and outer fender lip sheetmetal together and the spot welds along the buttcheek etc. Get the outer skin seperated and yank it out basically.
Click to expand...

i would if i had a welder and paint booth, with option A, man. I'll check those threads, thanks for the tip!


so ill just do 25-28mm up front, 30-33 in the rear and trim the rear fender lips from what i gathered here.
 
Readily available sizes are the 1" and 1.5" setups, aka 25mm and 32mm. That's what I'd run, and if you want/need a little more poke use some thin 3-5mm spacers on top of the adapters for looks.

What towery was saying about the balance of the car is that as you increase the track width, that end will increase in grip. So, if you are adding more to the rear's track width, the rear of the car will gain more grip. Now, whether or not that slight increase in track width will take your car from whatever it is to an understeering pig is another question. Try it and find out! Fine tune with swaybars if you don't like it.

I really need to do something as well, to allow me to just throw my track wheels on top of the adapters. Or, I should just get a set of 32mm adapters and run them all around, with thin spacers for when I want more poke. Meh.
 
harribert said:
i thought that an increase in track would yield better steady state grip, if it's the case that having a wider rear track will negatively impact the fun factor of the car's handling i will just go with the track widths you suggested
Click to expand...
Indeed, but what are you changing on the front that will increase grip to match the increase at the back? If the answer is nothing, then you're going to increase the tendancy to understeer if you only add rear grip. If the car is currently prone to understeer, or if it's neutral, adding rear grip is probably not the best thing. If the car oversteers, adding rear grip would be an improvement.

I don't remember the track width difference front to rear, but it's a lot, and you don't have enough fender clearance to match the rear to the front.

Consider that the rear track is so much narrower than the front and the car STILL understeers badly when stock. Negaive camber and positive caster on the front will help a lot of you want to widen the rear track.
 
towerymt said:
Indeed, but what are you changing on the front that will increase grip to match the increase at the back? If the answer is nothing, then you're going to increase the tendancy to understeer if you only add rear grip. If the car is currently prone to understeer, or if it's neutral, adding rear grip is probably not the best thing. If the car oversteers, adding rear grip would be an improvement.

I don't remember the track width difference front to rear, but it's a lot, and you don't have enough fender clearance to match the rear to the front.

Consider that the rear track is so much narrower than the front and the car STILL understeers badly when stock. Negaive camber and positive caster on the front will help a lot of you want to widen the rear track.
Click to expand...

heh, it rains so much here that my car hangs its tail out if i trail brake, lift off, add power, etc midcorner. in traffic. more camber and caster are a distant item on my wish list (i still get massive outside edge wear on the tires with the struts pushed all the way in), closer in will be an LSD, which everyone knows will make power on oversteer a snap. literally.

i think i will go cheap and buy ezwheelaccessory lugcentric adapters then.
 
You still haven't cut your springs? You can use that to fine tune oversteer and understeer.

You're going to want more than one coil buddy.
 
He's running IPD springs, which get relatively stiff when you start cutting them. (if you didn't already know he was running them)

Use swaybar size and tire pressures for adjusting balance, not cutting your springs, lol. You might have to lower the rear more than the front and then it'd look funny!
 
klr142 said:
You might have to lower the rear more than the front and then it'd look funny!
Click to expand...

hay mayne, remember i am teh messican hurr and i like da lowridah lewk, kay?

in all seriousness i think it could do with slightly chopped springs, especially up front. the rear doesnt really need stiffening by my butt feeling but it would be nice to bring the rear end on center...i am going to throw on an adjustable panhard bar in there anyhow. as well as poly on the big end of the trailing arms and panhard bar.

if i end up craving more oversteer i'll double up on sway bars...you know, make a bracket and bolt up my 19mm one.

now to make up for the loss in acceleration caused by the nebulae...
 
I'd recommend rubber for the big bushings of the trailing arms, poly there reduces the rear end's ability to articulate and stay connected to the ground. I don't expect you to be craving more oversteer either, but we'll see when you get to whatever stance you want to keep. Remember though, lowering the front of the car more will encourage it to lift its inside rear wheels even more often...
 
Um... its always been common knowledge to me that a flatter rear end (bigger sway bar) makes the back end step out easier. I've driven an S70 and an impreza right before and after installation of a rear bar (no front) and they were both much more tail happy after. Are 240's somehow different?
 
Last edited:
850turbo said:
Um... its always been common knowledge to me that a flatter rear end (bigger sway bar) makes the back end step out easier. I've driven an S70 and an impreza right before and after installation of a rear bar (no front) and they were both much more tail happy after. Are 240's somehow different?
Click to expand...

You should quote the comment you are referencing. Everyone has to re-read the whole thread to try to find the comment you're referring to.

From what I can tell, no one is saying that more roll stiffness won't increase oversteer...
 
Captain Bondo said:
You should quote the comment you are referencing. Everyone has to re-read the whole thread to try to find the comment you're referring to.

From what I can tell, no one is saying that more roll stiffness won't increase oversteer...
Click to expand...

was a private conversation with harald, and he sent me link to this thread, have since figured out misunderstanding and we are on the same page, lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top