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Old 02-07-2019, 03:24 PM   #1
linuxman51
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So I've got a bit of a head scratcher here with my v70r (p2ARR)

Back in late november, on the way home from out of town I noticed (in a bit of a delirious sleep deprived state) the car suddenly developed a vibration that was felt coming from the front passenger side, and could be felt in the steering wheel. I thought I'd ran over something and maybe the tire was going flat or had developed a goose egg, that sort of thing. No dice. tire/wheel looked fine. Vibration seemed to peak around 60 and start to go away above that, and eventually it just kinda went away.

Next few weeks, car was fine around town, nothing remarkable, then one morning on the way to work (around xmas time, no kid) I pulled off of a stop light and around 40mph the car felt like it was going to shake itself apart. Again, felt like it was coming from the passenger side. Google indicates vibrations driving tend to be related to the axles, and of course I had to deal with the infamous passenger side axle. New axle was installed about 2 weeks ago, drove it around a little, problem seemed to be resolved,yay (Oh, and when I was taking out the old axle, it very easily separated at the inner joint, which lead me to believe it'd already internally fallen apart). Drove it to work, was fine. Drove it home, called hockey930 and casually mentioned I thought the vibration was back, but to a much lower extent (and wondered if perhaps I was just imagining it)

Weeeell I wasn't. it came back with a vengeance, accompanied by a metallic rotational click. dammit. Had some other irons on the fire that precluded looking at it, finally got it up on the ramps last night to look for something that I felt like should be *VERY* obvious. nothing. nothing was loose, nothing would tug, nothing made anyhing approaching a metallic noise. Jacked it up, wheel does not move in any odd directions (not any more than the driver's side wheel, checked that too), Axle is not flopping around in there, no missing hardware on any of the suspension that I can tell (and I'd just had it apart to replace the axle, everything got the once over and it all looked decent enough).

the vibration *feels* like either a belt separated in the tire (but this is not obvious, and the tires are maybe a year and a half old, not bald nor really abused), or what I imagine a wheel with a broken tie rod end might feel like, that was rapidly flopping in and out (the car does not seem to pull when this happens, but again I tugged on the tie rod end specifically... may be about time for a new driver's side one, but the passenger side one seemed fine).
Wheel is not loose, struts are about a year and a half old.

thoughts? I'm really not sure what it could be.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:37 PM   #2
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Rotate tires to see if it makes a diff?
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:51 PM   #3
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Do you feel it in the steering wheel or through the entire car?

Is it only when accelerating?

Is it more pronounced when turning?

Do you have the ability of driving it with all wheels in the air?

Wheels are properly torqued?

have you pried down on the control arm at the ball joint? Using a long pry bar to look for ball joint movement. (Most times, you can shake a wheel, and it will feel tight, but Ball joint will separate when pried down on).

Spindle bolts are tight? Control arm bolts are tight?



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Old 02-07-2019, 03:56 PM   #4
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What Dan said. See if it follows. Sometimes a belt separation isn't obvious at all. New tires can have belt separations soon after installation. 3 out of 4 Nokian Hakkapellitas separated within 3 years on a 940 I had. On one, the tread came clear off within minutes of the vibration starting.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:07 PM   #5
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Do you feel it in the steering wheel or through the entire car? whole car and wheel

Is it only when accelerating? no, decel and coast can be really sketchy as well

Is it more pronounced when turning? does not seem to be

Do you have the ability of driving it with all wheels in the air? maybe.. could pull the awd fuse and put it on the dyno as well...

Wheels are properly torqued? seem to be. I did the passenger one about two weeks ago

have you pried down on the control arm at the ball joint? Using a long pry bar to look for ball joint movement. (Most times, you can shake a wheel, and it will feel tight, but Ball joint will separate when pried down on).have not

Spindle bolts are tight? Control arm bolts are tight?seem to be, nothing gives

easier to answer that way.. spindle bolts.. should shake with the wheel hanging in the air, yes?
I'll double check control arm bolts, but I pried on them to get the swaybar endlink bolted back in after the axle swap, and it did not move easily. I did have the top of the spindle assy unbolted from the strut, and it felt normal, didn't fall off or rattle around when it was basically only held in by brake line, tie rod, and control arm.

So the oddball nature of this is that until basically now, the problem went away and came back. it is gear independent, application of brakes while it's shaking heavily does not seem to decrease it, in fact it seems like it might make it worse.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
Do you feel it in the steering wheel or through the entire car? whole car and wheel

Is it only when accelerating? no, decel and coast can be really sketchy as well

Is it more pronounced when turning? does not seem to be

Do you have the ability of driving it with all wheels in the air? maybe.. could pull the awd fuse and put it on the dyno as well...

Wheels are properly torqued? seem to be. I did the passenger one about two weeks ago

have you pried down on the control arm at the ball joint? Using a long pry bar to look for ball joint movement. (Most times, you can shake a wheel, and it will feel tight, but Ball joint will separate when pried down on).have not

Spindle bolts are tight? Control arm bolts are tight?seem to be, nothing gives

easier to answer that way.. spindle bolts.. should shake with the wheel hanging in the air, yes?
I'll double check control arm bolts, but I pried on them to get the swaybar endlink bolted back in after the axle swap, and it did not move easily. I did have the top of the spindle assy unbolted from the strut, and it felt normal, didn't fall off or rattle around when it was basically only held in by brake line, tie rod, and control arm.

So the oddball nature of this is that until basically now, the problem went away and came back. it is gear independent, application of brakes while it's shaking heavily does not seem to decrease it, in fact it seems like it might make it worse.
I just had a fairly new CV axle fail, there wasn't much movement in it when I wiggled it but I believe it was the cause of my problems. I did also change the wheel bearing at the same time, it was not loose but it was making noise.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:51 PM   #7
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Correct answer is set it on fire and buy another Evo
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
I just had a fairly new CV axle fail
This is kinda what jumped into my head
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:34 PM   #9
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Well if it isn't one of the suggestions above. Your car being an R has that CVCC electronic chassis control. It makes me think the one shock is going full 'hard' and causing the suspension to do that weird shaking. This came to mind becaue you mentioned clicking like it was adjusting the shock valving.

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Old 02-07-2019, 10:27 PM   #10
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I have seen replacement drive axles develop an issue within minutes to months of installation.

I have also seen dampers do all manner of creepy wierd ish. Intermittently too.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:55 PM   #11
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The 4C will just jar your teeth out going full stiff- main reason I traded mine off.
I am going to have to agree with checking the axle. I have read some horror stories on the R axles. With the car on the Dyno, are you able to really see under it that well? Would be nice to run it loaded with visuals.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:58 PM   #12
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I once had a 244 turbo that a front strut seized on. That made the car shake like it had a fixed suspension.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:27 AM   #13
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"metallic rotational click" is the only thing I know how to diagnose on a FWD car, preferably when the owner of an old Civic (former coworker) has driven it a while with that click and THEN asks my opinion...yup, you need axles. BUT...this is the "new" axle that's clicking and vibrating? If it was actually solved briefly right after replacement, then I'd probably bet my money on the axle. But I know little of the inner workings of the RRRRRRs / FWDs.

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I once had a 244 turbo that a front strut seized on. That made the car shake like it had a fixed suspension.
Mine rode OK when the road was smooth, but it sure banged hard when there was a dip or any bump at all. DeCarbon didn't seize in one position, but would only compress about half as far as it should. Wasn't full of water like what I experienced years later. That felt about the same, but both struts at once got really bad over any sort of bump. Pulled one side apart, found water in the insert, squeezed it out, and put it all back together. Drilled a tiny hole through the bottom of the tube on the other side, lowered the lift, shot the water out...probably solved.
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Old 02-08-2019, 01:25 PM   #14
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I had some weird vibration in my S60R. Then one day it locked up- angle gear failure.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:43 PM   #15
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This decarbon seized shock was so very seized that when I banged it on the ground after extraction. The bottom cap flew off and sprayed shock oil all over me. I got a bath in french oil.
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:09 PM   #16
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I had some weird vibration in my S60R. Then one day it locked up- angle gear failure.
Thought about that too, but I was under the assumption they stripped. I suppose the bearing itself could cause that too with the splines still intact operating the AWD.
(As a note, I was lucky mine was repaired before purchase)
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceEngineered View Post
The 4C will just jar your teeth out going full stiff- main reason I traded mine off.
I am going to have to agree with checking the axle. I have read some horror stories on the R axles. With the car on the Dyno, are you able to really see under it that well? Would be nice to run it loaded with visuals.
I'd have to do it with someone in the car able to stop things, but the dyno isn't in a pit, so I could do it that way I suppose..
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:02 PM   #18
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got a second (better, more professional, etc.. AKA the guy I normally take the R to because I don't FWD, it gives me a rash) opinion, and the prognosis is bad axle. pulled it off, put it in the vice and starts articulating it a little, and it's got a spot (right in the middle really) where it binds up. So.. it's going back. Reckon we'll try this again in a few weeks and I guess I'll see what it's going to take to get the prius back on the road since the volvo has decided to be a turd.
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:42 PM   #19
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Sucks, but at least you know! Now that high voltage Toyota- I didn't think they broke!
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:40 AM   #20
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Where'd you get the R axle from? Or, who rebuilt it?

Upon removal, they frequently separate at the inner joint and literally fall apart.
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:22 AM   #21
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A volvo dealer, I didn't get mine rebuilt (but we put it back together and stuck it in so the car can be moved)
Came from volvo of tempe (their amazon presence). It was in a volvo box, fairly poorly packed IMO, and the box was a bit torn up upon arrival, but the axle itself did not appear worse for the wear (it looked like the axle tore the box up). It's not listed as a reman on the box or on the axle itself, so I dunno.

on the toyota, suspect corrosion of the link bars on the traction battery, but we'll see. I gotta have something to drive and the 940's transmission doesn't have a lot of trips left in it at this point.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:38 AM   #22
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new axle got here teusday, got it installed last night (30 minutes start to finish. 25 if I'd turned the wheel towards the passenger side to start instead of the driver's side). went for a test drive, did various tight radius low speed turns (circles, not donuts, in a parking lot), no abnormal grinding or groaning that might indicate bad wheel bearings. Articulated the axle before installing so that it hopefully distributed the grease. No issues. re-checked all the lug nuts and the axle bolt after the drive, everything stayed snug.

Drove it to work this morning, so far no issues. Fingers crossed. FWIW, this axle moved a *lot* easier than the other 'new' axle, so here's hoping. It didn't hurt that the box wasn't beat to **** this time either.

The prius on the other hand, battery controller and voltage harness blew up and burned out.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:32 AM   #23
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Does that mean you aren't setting it on fire, then?
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:33 AM   #24
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Also replace Prius with new Corolla hatch
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:50 AM   #25
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Does that mean you aren't setting it on fire, then?
the prius or the R? I'll answer both: that's 100% moment to moment. Well sort of.

going to try and track down a used battery pack for the prius hopefully for relatively cheap (hell as long as the harness and ecu look good that's all I really care about), get it squared away and probably sell it.. looking to replace it with something a little more suitable for periods of non-use, as I think that's what ultimately lead to the issues with the prius. Perhaps something LS based in it's native habitat, we'll see.

Not sure on the outlook for the R.. currently a bit jaded towards it, tho tbh not really a direct fault of it's own. if it settles back down to it's normal self I'll probably relax the replacement talk for a little bit.
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