76 244 LSx LQ4 Swap - no cut subframe

I posted this over in the performance section...but I think I should have put it here.


I am making the mounts for jonah111's 76 244 LSx swap. He dropped the car off on Monday and I am pretty close to making mounts. His car will end up with a 6L and a 4l80e. I think he is talking about a cam and tune.....maybe some head work.

Either way the goal for this was to make some mounts and did not require the subframe to be cut. From all the threads I have seen it has not been done. I can see why.... But I am pretty close to having mounts available that will do just that. Install without cutting the subframe...and keep the oil pan above the subframe.

In the pics below you will see the oil pan hanging below the subframe but I have a holley LSx Swap pan in route which is the same profile as the pan below (h3 pan/GM swap pan) but the sub is slightly higher.

Here is a picture showing the differences.


About where the engine will end up




Around 3.5" off the firewall.


Subframe clearance to oil pan...


Some of these are hard to see what's going on. I cannot raise the car up much to show the clearance as the trans is supported on a trans jack and the engine is sitting on the subframe.









Hard to see here but this is off the steering rack and sway bar. The engine is sitting on around 3/8" of wood right now.





Back of trans...


Right now the oil pan is hanging below the subframe...this is with the $140 GM swap/h3 pan. The holley pan will be higher up.


Beginning of the mounts.... The next sets might have a bit more material on the bottom and side but I had these plates on hand. These will still be more than strong enough as is.





You can see the plate here sitting on the subframe...that will get bolted to the subframe.

passenger side


drivers side


Then there will be a piece of 2" DOM that will connect the bushing DOM to the plate that gets bolted to the subframe. Like this...


hooker headers clearing the steering shaft.




I really think some block hugger headers would fit as well.

Some more just random pictures.




Trans tunnel will need some....adjustments here.
The picture looks like it is hitting a lot but really just at the top rib there.






Feel free to check out some of my other swaps at www.classicdaily.net

Takes 30 minutes to notch the K member, flip the cut, and reweld. then you can run a $50 Fbody pan. IMO, people spend far to much time and $$$ trying to get around a simple notch.

That being said great job.

Yes cutting the subframe isn't a big deal but a lot of people don't have the resources to be able to cut and notch the subframe. Also by not cutting the subframe it keeps things very OEM. Well as OEM as a GM LSx V8 in a volvo can be.

The Holley Oil pan showed up today

Here is is compared to the GM pan






Mounts not welded but the weight of the engine is supported by the mounts right now.
passenger side



drivers side



Random pictures








Clearance at the tunnel at the top of the trans.



To get the engine angle I wanted and as low as possible the sway bar will need to be spaced down just a little bit. Or a different bar used. 1/2" should be more than enough. This is with the bolts just loosened.



In the bay sitting on the mounts and trans jack...
Truck intake will not clear the flat hood. It might if some of the plastic bits are trimmed out tho.



Car intake fits a lot better..



Hooker manifold clears great...as does a 2010 camaro (but not on passenger side)




passenger side


I did a quick measurement and the T56 will put the shifter about 2" back in the shifter hole. Easy to center with a different shifter.

I agree. I just feel like spending almost what the LS pullout itself costs on a pan is crazy. Not to mention notching the k member is one of the easier tasks involved with the swap. And no one ever swaps back, that being said no one will ever care if your k member is untouched, IMO.

Keep the truck IM if you can, cut off all the webbing on the top. There are several threads on how to do it. It makes more power than the ****ty ls1 IM's. Or spend $300 on an Ls6.

Glad to see another t56 car in the works.

I have a full exhaust already built for those manifolds and a t56. Has o2 bungs and flanges. if you're interested. Has less than a thousand miles on it. Just needs a muffler. It was built for a 245, and Y's after the transmission to a single 3" on the passenger side. Might need reworked since it's a 244, but just shortened a tad if anything.

nothing new really but still really cool, i think people misjudge the physical size of these motors. theres a guy with a procharged ls1 in norway with a untouched front x member. i bearly touched mine, only pushed the middle in 1/8" for more bellhousing bolt access and dead on shifter positioning with the t5
<a href="http://s265.photobucket.com/user/2fast242gt/media/20121005_160254.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii234/2fast242gt/20121005_160254.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 20121005_160254.jpg"/></a>

2fast242gt said:

nothing new really but still really cool, i think people misjudge the physical size of these motors. theres a guy with a procharged ls1 in norway with a untouched front x member. i bearly touched mine, only pushed the middle in 1/8" for more bellhousing bolt access and dead on shifter positioning with the t5
<a href="http://s265.photobucket.com/user/2fast242gt/media/20121005_160254.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii234/2fast242gt/20121005_160254.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 20121005_160254.jpg"/></a>

Click to expand...

Because your running a t5, which is almost 10 inches shorter.

I could have fit my motor no problem without notching the k member, but my shifter would have been in the back seat.

It's all new to me. I may have misjudged the LS motors in my quest for cheap v8-dom.

Back seat like this?




This build
http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/07/intercontimental-missile-volvo-v8-wagon-of-fun/

Can a T5 handle enough power to be fun?

JohnMc said:

Can a T5 handle enough power to be fun?

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Meh. They'll handle 350-400 somewhat reliably. The problem is they don't last long once you start really beating on them. But they're super cheap and easy to rebuild. And like anything, you can build them to handle more power.

My ls motor is lower than OP. I used an H3 pan and a t56. Jr. notched the crossmember, but after installation, the pan is 1.5" off the original crossmember edge. The problem is that installing the engine and transmission together is impossible without the notch. I guess It would be possible to drop the crossmember and install the engine, then bolt it back up without a notch.
Our lower position causes the steering shaft to hit the hooker headers, and the sway bar was <1/8" off the front of the oil pan. This was solved by 28mm Ipd dropped bar from the group buy.

jakeb said:

Back seat like this?

This build
http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/07/intercontimental-missile-volvo-v8-wagon-of-fun/

Click to expand...

Yeah. I like that build. Think it's the wheels. I wonder if it moves under it's own power yet. Those are some of the best seats you can buy IMO. I just can't justify $800 a seat.

740atl said:

It's all new to me. I may have misjudged the LS motors in my quest for cheap v8-dom.

Click to expand...

Just wait, in the next year or so Ls3/l92's will start showing up in the JY's

MikeSr. said:

My ls motor is lower than OP. I used an H3 pan and a t56. Jr. notched the crossmember, but after installation, the pan is 1.5" off the original crossmember edge. The problem is that installing the engine and transmission together is impossible without the notch. I guess It would be possible to drop the crossmember and install the engine, then bolt it back up without a notch.
Our lower position causes the steering shaft to hit the hooker headers, and the sway bar was <1/8" off the front of the oil pan. This was solved by 28mm Ipd dropped bar from the group buy.

Click to expand...

I bet we are at about the same height....as right now the pan is around 1/4-3/8" above the steering rack. The front part of the holley pan is the same as the H3 pan when it comes to depth. It looks like it might be slightly wider though.

I also had to connect the trans to the engine once in the car. That was with the H3 pan. The Holley pan MIGHT allow them to go in together becasue it is about 2" shallower. I will try that when I test with the 4l60 and the T56. This 4l80 is a heavy sob.

How far are you off the firewall to the back of the passenger side head? I am just under 3"

w00dst0ck said:

Just wait, in the next year or so Ls3/l92's will start showing up in the JY's

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They already are but just still fetching big money. I have one installed in an E36 and another waiting to be installed in another e36. Both engine/tr6060 packages were around $10k.

Yeah, that's what I meant. In a couple years they will be $5-700 for a pullout too.

Buddy picked up an L92 with 6l80 for $2,500. He sold the trans and made a good portion of his money back. Car is making over 500rwhp in his Vette now.

I'm about 3" from the back of my manfiold. My motor and trans go in together (I hate separating them in the car, and for me it's easier to just pull everything).

jakeb said:

I bet we are at about the same height....as right now the pan is around 1/4-3/8" above the steering rack. The front part of the holley pan is the same as the H3 pan when it comes to depth. It looks like it might be slightly wider though.

I also had to connect the trans to the engine once in the car. That was with the H3 pan. The Holley pan MIGHT allow them to go in together becasue it is about 2" shallower. I will try that when I test with the 4l60 and the T56. This 4l80 is a heavy sob.

How far are you off the firewall to the back of the passenger side head? I am just under 3"

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I'm about the same, 3" to the firewall. We centered the engine on the centerline of the drivetrain. Shot it with a carpenter's laser. It could have been offset to the passenger side a little and cleared the steering shaft. I have an LS1 intake, so my flat hood will clear with no problem. I need an 8.8 to finish this up

.

I will say that it is much easier to swap an LS engine into an older f-body than a Volvo... I used a similar Holley pan (if not that one) in my '81 Z/28 when I swapped an ls2 in.

fortbrick said:

I will say that it is much easier to swap an LS engine into an older f-body than a Volvo.

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I would hope so