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Old 04-27-2018, 04:00 PM   #1
PromiseRing
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Default Service R12 or convert to R134-a

Just as a conclusive post so you don't have to go reading
We decided to simply replace the R/D (cheap insurance), vacuum the system to remove moisture, BUT then we depressed the schrader valve to get pressures back to 0 (do not charge a vehicle with ES12A while under a vacuum. Do it at 0inHg). Then we charged with the correct amount of ES12A and the ac blows about 40F no matter how hot.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Original Post Below>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

1990 740 LH2.4

AC doesn’t work. Jumped the compressor with 12v and it engages like it should. Car sat for a couple years so I’m thinking it all leaked out, there was green sludge on the bottom of the compressor when I looked underneath the car. I have service records for a $2.5k dollar Volvo dealer visit from 10+ years ago. PO had a new compressor and a buuuunch if other AC work and other stuff done.

I will likely pay a 'professional' to do the work so I don’t blow myself up. I’ve recharged the r134 systems on the 93 cars but this is different.

Do I have them pull a vacuum, then recharge with r12 (or r12 equivalent) + Volvo lube? Or do I do the same but just throw r134 fittings on and fill with r134 + volvo lube? I’ve read something about r134 leaking out of r12 systems due to molecule size. I’m not wanting to pay $300+ to tear the system apart and replace it with r134 components. Also wondering if there’s a substitute lube I can use where I don’t have to drive to the dealer.


I’m all about quick and dirty jobs but this is for my SO’s car so I want it to be reliable and cold for her.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:09 PM   #2
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I say replace the drier at a minimum, and maybe look into a substitute like Duracool. If you use R134 use ester oil.
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Old 04-27-2018, 09:35 PM   #3
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Just got mine back online with r134. I used a machine, but youbcoukd vacuum it down with a harbor freight vac pump somehow and then add some cans.

Here is my thread:

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=333678
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Old 04-27-2018, 09:51 PM   #4
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I believe you can rent pumps from vatozone, I used a super dinky air powered one which works well enough.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:00 PM   #5
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So vacuum, replace receiver/drier, put on r12>r134 adapters and fill with oil and r134?
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:13 PM   #6
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Add to much oil and performance can suffer. Too little in there and the compressor dies.

There isn't really a way to tell how much is left in the system. So I just add an ounce sometimes for good measure. Or sometimes, add nothing.

Ester oil seems like the way to go. So yes, recover, vac down, add correct amount of refrigerant and maybe some oil. Or not.
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Old 04-28-2018, 12:38 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
Add to much oil and performance can suffer. Too little in there and the compressor dies.

There isn't really a way to tell how much is left in the system. So I just add an ounce sometimes for good measure. Or sometimes, add nothing.

Ester oil seems like the way to go. So yes, recover, vac down, add correct amount of refrigerant and maybe some oil. Or not.
lol Iíd rather performance suffer a bit than to launch a compressor

New receiver driver>pull a vacuum>throw 1oz of ester oil in>install r134 adapters and fill with r134.

But pay a professional to do all this.
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:57 AM   #8
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You need to find out why it failed. It prob leaked out.

1 oz oil for good measure should be fine.
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
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You need to find out why it failed. It prob leaked out.

1 oz oil for good measure should be fine.
Isnít it somewhat normal to leak out over time? If the leak is slow enough to last 2-3 seasons then I donít care.
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:54 PM   #10
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Isnít it somewhat normal to leak out over time? If the leak is slow enough to last 2-3 seasons then I donít care.
Yes. All automobile AC systems leak over time. Don't bother with R-134A. Just put Enviro-Safe ES12A in it and be done. You don't have to change anything. It outperforms R-134A and is half the cost.
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Old 04-28-2018, 04:34 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
Yes. All automobile AC systems leak over time. Don't bother with R-134A. Just put Enviro-Safe ES12A in it and be done. You don't have to change anything. It outperforms R-134A and is half the cost.
Is that filled using the stock r12 fittings? I was just informed of a local Volvo shop near me who can possibly charge and lube the system for me.
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:27 PM   #12
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and is half the cost.
R134 is like $5 a can, a 240 takes 2.5.

It does cool significantly better though.
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Old 04-29-2018, 01:48 AM   #13
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duracool. I did the 134a with new drier and new orings. Never cooled well so I had the 134a takin out and pumped it down then added duracool. Its cold as ice in 100 degree temps. 134a does work but the system has to be setup for it. Bigger condenser different valve etc.
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Old 04-29-2018, 11:39 AM   #14
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Nah, you have a leak.
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Old 04-29-2018, 12:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
Yes. All automobile AC systems leak over time. Don't bother with R-134A. Just put Enviro-Safe ES12A in it and be done. You don't have to change anything. It outperforms R-134A and is half the cost.
Alright getting some mixed responses from you folks so I will do some research. I was never actually thaaat impressed with r134 in older cars (though my 240s are exceptionally cold after about 10 damn minutes).

Question now seems to be duracool or the Enviro-Safe ES12A. Benefits/downsides to each? Can I use stock r12 fittings for each?

If I can have him fully evacuate the system Iíll just pick up some ester oil and have the ac guy put in the proper amount of that and proper amount of refrigerant.
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Old 04-29-2018, 01:45 PM   #16
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There have been some positive results using propane. It's common in other countries, and is basically what Freeze12 is. You'll need to come up with some fittings to get it in there though.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:00 PM   #17
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I get 40* at the vents with an aftermarket parallel flow condensor and DustOff Keyboard duster as a R12 replacement. 12 bucks for a 4 pack at walmart, I charge roughly 28 oz into it and call it a day. Lasted a year before it leaked out, another 12 bucks and its blowing freezing again.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:09 PM   #18
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Find the source of the leak with a UV light, replace the part that is the source of the leak, replaced the receiver/drier add two ounces of POE(ester oil), vac the system down for a good half hour to hour. Then add 2 and half cans of Duracool and call it a day. Did that to my Wife's 244(which has about the same size system) and it runs cold as ice.
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-My car: White 1991 244, 308k miles. B230F LH2.4, AW70, R134a retro. Thrush glasspack, anthracite refinished Coronas
-Wife's car: White 1990 244DL, T cam, 190k miles.B230F LH2.4, AW70 w/aux cooler, Duracool AC w/condenser fan, purple refinished Virgos, tow hitch, ipd wagon overload springs.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:31 PM   #19
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Nah, you have a leak.
All automotive AC systems have leaks. Read this and learn something. http://autotechac.com/ac-facts-and-myths/
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:44 PM   #20
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An AC shop will be able to install ES-12A in either a R-12 or R-134 system.
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
An AC shop will be able to install ES-12A in either a R-12 or R-134 system.
Any reason to run this over duracool? Read lots of good about duracool.
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:47 PM   #22
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I don't know. I've never tried Duracool. I have used ES-12A in both R-134 and R-12 systems. It gets incredibly cold.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
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I don't know. I've never tried Duracool. I have used ES-12A in both R-134 and R-12 systems. It gets incredibly cold.
Alright Iíll look into both. Looks like either ES-12A or duracool will work. So hold a vacuum for 30min-1hr, then evac the system, remove and replace the receiver drier, fill system with duracool and 2 ounces of ester oil.

I will talk to the old lady and order a receiver driver, ester oil, r12 to r134 fittings, and a few cans of duracool.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:52 PM   #24
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Running Duracool in the Wife's 244. Ice cold out the vents in 80* weather that Oregon sees every once in a summer. Defintely less expensive than R-134a. EnviroSafe is also a good one. Choose your flavor and fill 'er up. Roy does this stuff for a living, I would take his word over quite a few here.

You won't need to purchase any oil if you get Duracool, it comes with a bit in each can that is compatible with PAG and mineral oil. You can get a four seasons receiver/drier from RockAuto for $16.

Last edited by KeizerBrickGuy; 04-30-2018 at 02:57 PM.. Reason: D'oh
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:39 PM   #25
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Thanks for all the words guys! I just had a look under the hood and it looks like perhaps someone has installed r12 to r134 fittings before? I don’t know **** about ac but maybe you guys can tell me. Looks like one of those press fit pieces r134 used instead of a thread on.










I know it’s the wrong way to do it by just buying the stuff in a can and throwing it in, but I’ve gotten away with it a few times. I have some left over from filling another vehicle and when I put the gauge on the low side fitting I did get a reading (but a low one). I’m hoping the system is just low enough to not kick on. Might throw some Freon in there and see what she does.

Plan is still to evacuate system and fill with duracool (without lube because it has it already).
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