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Old 01-01-2009, 04:18 PM   #1
Steve940Estate
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Default EGR System Removal.

When I fitted the turbo engine into my car I decided to remove the EGR stuff. I did this partly to simplify things (less to go wrong) and to stop the build up of any exhaust soot etc in the inlet manifold.
I have been having problems with intermittent high idle speed since and have started to think removing the EGR might be causing the problem.
As far as I know the engine management system allows for the exhaust gas and alters the ignition timing and mixture. I think my car is doing this but because there is no exhaust gas going in it is confusing things.

Has anyone had similar problems of could confirm what I am thinking. I either need to get hold of a non EGR ECU and ICU or re-fit the EGR valve. I would rather not re-fit it as it will mean swapping the inlet manifold over although it won't end up costing anything.
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:28 PM   #2
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I just did the EGR Delete on my wagon. No issues whatsoever. Find yourself a 149 ICU (or the appropriate euro-spec non-EGR ICU) and you should be fine. The ECU actually has no effect on the EGR on the LH2.4 cars.
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:32 PM   #3
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I deleted the EGR from my 1996 940 a couple of months ago when i did the head gasket. I removed the metal pipe and valve that snakes around the engine block. I blocked up the hole in the inlet manifold with a penny jb welded over the hole. I left the Electronic control box on the suspension turret connected up and removed all the hoses attached to it.

Havent had any problems at all with my idle speed.
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:41 PM   #4
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Thats interesting. I found some info that suggested timing advance and "decreased fuel injection duration" but is wasn't Volvo specific.
I'm not sure what is causing the idle speed problem and wondered if the EGR removal was possibly the cause.
I drive at around 65-70mph for about 40 minutes and when slowing down notice the idle stays up to around 1100 rpm whilst changing down and sometimes sits there whilst stationary for a while before dropping to normal.
I was wondering if the ECU was "learning wrong" whilst driving and then getting confused when idling again due to the EGR stuff not doing what it should.
I have checked most other things now but still wonder if the throttle switch has an intermittent fault.
I will maybee keep an eye out for another ICU and give that I try.
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHESH740R View Post
I deleted the EGR from my 1996 940 a couple of months ago when i did the head gasket. I removed the metal pipe and valve that snakes around the engine block. I blocked up the hole in the inlet manifold with a penny jb welded over the hole. I left the Electronic control box on the suspension turret connected up and removed all the hoses attached to it.

Havent had any problems at all with my idle speed.
Cheers for the reply, I'm clutching at straws really. I have left the control box/valve off and haven't had any codes saying there is a problem. The car seems to run ok apart from the idle speed thing. My MPG isn't the best either but I think that might be due to me using the extra performance I have now.
I want to up the boost a bit and have a play with the timing to see if it will go a bit faster but if I can't get it to run properly there isn't much point yet.
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:55 PM   #6
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I've noticed the random high-idle thing as well, but I KNOW my IAC motor is a little sticky and the TPS may be a little as well as it's the original one from the car. Either of those (or the TPS being right on the edge on it's adjustment) could cause the high idle. If you just bumped something enough to where the TPS isn't always closing then the ECU won't control the idle speed. Not having EGR on our cars won't have any effect on the idle speed as long as the ports are blocked off.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:09 PM   #7
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I didn't think it would but I have spent hours cleaning and resetting the throttle, and swapping bits to no effect. I have sat with the TPS connected to a meter whilst operating it to see if it worked every time and it seemed ok. I might splash out on a new switch just to rule it out, the idle control valve is spotlessly clean and they aren't cheap so that can wait for now. I have tried another one on the car but things were the same.

There have been a few people in the UK with similar problems. If the electrically operated valve got stuck it would have the same effect as disconnecting everything. I wonder if anyone else has had a problem.
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Old 01-01-2009, 06:55 PM   #8
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Is it a manual or an auto?
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Is it a manual or an auto?
Hi, it's a manual, if that helps. It was an auto before but I have swapped everything including the wiring looms so there shouldn't be any problems with the auto gearbox wiring. Is there something else I haven't thought of ?
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:42 PM   #10
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As far as I know the Auto ECU expects to see a result from the EGR, the manual one doesn't. On my car I removed the pipes and blocked them off, but left the rest plugged in. That though is a factory manual.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fivehundred View Post
As far as I know the Auto ECU expects to see a result from the EGR, the manual one doesn't. On my car I removed the pipes and blocked them off, but left the rest plugged in. That though is a factory manual.
Thanks. My car should be completely standard manual turbo spec now apart from the EGR. Thinking about it I'm not sure if the valve is controlled by the ECU or if it sends a signal to it that is operated by manifold vacuum. I wonder if re-connecting the vacuum pipes and plugging the valve back in will fool the ECU, if thats what is causing the problem.

Thanks for everyones comments, I might get somewhere in the end !
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Old 01-01-2009, 08:13 PM   #12
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unless im mistaken, isnt there a pin that you grount tell the ecu that theres no egr?
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Old 01-01-2009, 08:28 PM   #13
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Hi
I have read on here about grounding pins to alter ignition timing but haven't see anything about the EGR. I have just been looking at the control unit pin identifications and there doesn't seem to be any on the ECU, but the ICU does.
Volvo list different control units for cars with or without EGR so something must be different.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:27 PM   #14
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There's been various threads about how to disable the EGR, but nothing really conclusive. From my understanding, there's not a difference in ECU's between auto and manual, since the 2.4 stuff has no control over trans functions.

Just for the heck of it, did you already unhook the vacuum line that ran from the manifold to the vacuum controller on the fenderwell and cap the port on the manifold?

Have you checked for leaks on the IAC motor hoses? I've had the wonderful luck of having a leak in one of the hoses that was covered up by the hose clamp, which took me a while to find, and I only found it when the hose removed itself from the rest of the hose when I got into the boost at around 17psi. Talk about a fun drive home.....
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:35 PM   #15
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Hi
I found the ERG kill thread on here earlier and though I had hit the jackpot and found a posssible fix. Read through and realised it wasn't unfortunately.

When I put the engine in the car I took everything off and blanked the exhaust manifold. I swapped the inlet manifold for the one off my old non turbo engine. This doesn't have the hole for the EGR pipe. I didn't fit the vacuum lines or the control valve either. Strangely I don't have any fault codes or check lights. My EGR system doesn't seem to have the electronic temperature sensor on it so perhaps the controllers don't know it isn't there.
I'm pretty sure all the hoses are ok as I had everything off to clean up. I will have a look round again just to make sure though.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsellstr View Post
There's been various threads about how to disable the EGR, but nothing really conclusive. From my understanding, there's not a difference in ECU's between auto and manual, since the 2.4 stuff has no control over trans functions.
Correct.

But...

On the phase II 940's the EZK is different depending on if it is automatic or not. 207 and 219 EZK number.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:39 PM   #17
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I'm beginning to whish I hadn't started this now

I have a parts list and for the 1995 b230ft there are 3 Volvo part numbers listed

3517369 manual or auto without EGR (also used on earlier b230ft)

9135590 manual with EGR (also used on manual b230fk)

6842449 auto with EGR (also used on auto b230fk )

Are these thought of as Phase 1 or 2 EZK.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I'm beginning to whish I hadn't started this now

I have a parts list and for the 1995 b230ft there are 3 Volvo part numbers listed

3517369 manual or auto without EGR (also used on earlier b230ft)

9135590 manual with EGR (also used on manual b230fk)

6842449 auto with EGR (also used on auto b230fk )

Are these thought of as Phase 1 or 2 EZK.
This is what it meant by phase I and II:
The Phase 1 940 is the 1991 to late 1994.
The phase II 940 is the 1995 to 1998 (never sold in the US).

3517369 = 0 227 400 148 Normal turbo EZK (both manual and automatic).

9135590 = 0 227 400 219 Manual turbo EGR EZK.

9135590 = 0 227 400 207 Auto turbo non-EGR EZK.

You can also find all of this info in my FAQ thread.

Which ECU and EZK numbers do you have? (The EZK and ECU numbers do not look like the ones you posted. Those are the part numbers from Volvo's part number system). The correct ones look like this 0 280 000 xxx (ECU), and 0 227 400 xxx (EZK).
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:55 PM   #19
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Oh... and your car is an auto, right?
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:50 PM   #20
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Yes the numbers I have listed are Volvo part numbers. I will have to look at the car to see what the Bosch numbers are as I didn't write them down.

My car is manual now. I was going to just do a gearbox swap but after driving the turbo car just had to do the engine as well.
The fact you have asked if it's auto makes me wonder if the ECU and EZK have ever been replaced with the wrong one.

Just thought I would add that I have cleaned the throttle switch, Idle control valve and mass air meter connectors up properly and the car seems to be behaving better at the moment.
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:19 AM   #21
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Yes, please check what EZK and ECU numbers you have in the car now. Then I can tell you what you need to do.

And one more thing: The car was NA before, right? Then disconnect the wire for the TPS that goes to the WOT switch. That is not used on turbo cars.
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:31 PM   #22
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Didn't get a chance to check the numbers today but will do tomorrow hopefully.

I think as I have swapped the engine looms over I have the right one for the turbo engine , I will check to see though.
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:33 PM   #23
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Well, I thought the car was ok but today it played up again. It had high idle when cold and didn't want to drop down until the car was stationary. Not sure this has anything to do with the EGR, perhaps it's the ECU temp sensor or a bad connection to it.

I checked the Bosch part numbers.

1995 940 B230FT Manual with EGR (Removed)

EZK. Bosch Number 0 227 400 219

ECU. Bosch Number 0 280 000 962
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:51 PM   #24
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Well, I thought the car was ok but today it played up again. It had high idle when cold and didn't want to drop down until the car was stationary. Not sure this has anything to do with the EGR, perhaps it's the ECU temp sensor or a bad connection to it.

I checked the Bosch part numbers.

1995 940 B230FT Manual with EGR (Removed)

EZK. Bosch Number 0 227 400 219

ECU. Bosch Number 0 280 000 962
The 219 EZK is an EGR EZK.

As a quick fix you can get a normal whitelabel 148 EZK to replace it with.

But keep the 219 until the day you want to chip the car.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:11 PM   #25
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Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I have recently had problems with a high idle and also have deleted the EGR, I actually left everything plugged up just removed all the piping swap manifolds and all and now I have a check engine light for the EGR no flow code 241, it says it causes poor idle, mine's high on Startup and then driving in traffic when I come to a stop it almost wants to shut off then jumps back up I don't know if this is related to EGR or not but it seems to have had this problem since, does anybody know a definitive way to get rid of the EGR check engine without getting chips

Also engine swap happened and the high idle is still there even from the old engine to the new engine, it seems to idle around 800 before the check engine light comes on then after that about a thousand to 1200
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