home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications > aftermarket engine management

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-01-2019, 04:24 PM   #1
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default 960/S90 M4.4 XDF...work in progress.

Well, I know I didn't really follow through with the M1.8 stuff, although I do have an XDF for it that I'd post up for everyone to use (can't remember if I did or not). It's pretty basic, but someone with an Ostrich could probably trace the active maps pretty easily and make a decent tune for themselves.

This time I'm making an M4.4 XDF for the B6304. It's actually proving to be pretty easy, since it's very similar to the existing M4.4 XDF that the Volvospeeders use to tune their M4.4 V/S 70s. I'm actually filling in a few extra bits as well, which probably aren't needed...but why not.

Time will tell if I'll be able to transcribe everything over (the bits and flags are kinda tough), but I've already finished a bunch of the fuel and knock maps...so fingers crossed .

This WILL be slow going, but as long as I can't drive/work on my own car...I will try to keep going on it. I can't STAND that the people who have this 6 cylinder XDF are keeping it close to their chests and charging out the nose for tunes...especially when it's proving to be pretty simple to make. I don't figure I'll damage anyone's business though...these are old cars.

Ok, here's the first draft. It's WILDLY incomplete, but the main fuel and ignition maps are available. I have NO idea what will happen if you alter these maps, and I cannot help you create a tune for your car. This is to be used at your own risk. I have NOT found the injector adjustment or rev limiter variables yet.

Now that the disclaimer is out of the way, I'd appreciate any criticism or brainstorming on how to best utilize this. The best way to go about testing is with an Ostrich emulator installed, the way the Volvospeed M4.4 guys do, so that active maps can be traced.

Attachment updated with XDF that includes MAF map locations.

Github link for all files needed and information storage: https://github.com/pulsatemedia/Volv...o-XDF-Motronic
Attached Files
File Type: zip XDF-BIN.zip (83.1 KB, 9 views)
__________________
1984 B6304S/AW30-40 w/Poi-Shift.

Last edited by Broke4speed; 02-06-2019 at 04:47 PM..
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2019, 08:16 PM   #2
955IsAlive
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: MN
Default

What's the process for making these XDF files? Is it complex, or just laborious? The really nice thing is that these i6 ME4.4's are cheap and easy to swap out (I think)... So if you ***K one up with a bad flash, you can have a backup on hand pretty easily.

For the folks charging for the XDFs, you gotta account for their time to support something like this too. I have no idea what they are charging though. but it seems basically each i6 ME4.4 would be a pretty bespoke one.

Last edited by 955IsAlive; 02-01-2019 at 09:08 PM..
955IsAlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2019, 11:39 PM   #3
955IsAlive
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: MN
Default

I loaded up a 960bin (well ori) with what I believe to be an 850 turbo XDF and at a cursory glance it seems like nothing really lines up? Which makes we wonder... What are the most important parameters we need? I think being able to tweak fuel and ignition curves would get us a long way?
955IsAlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2019, 09:21 AM   #4
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 955IsAlive View Post
What's the process for making these XDF files? Is it complex, or just laborious? The really nice thing is that these i6 ME4.4's are cheap and easy to swap out (I think)... So if you ***K one up with a bad flash, you can have a backup on hand pretty easily.

For the folks charging for the XDFs, you gotta account for their time to support something like this too. I have no idea what they are charging though. but it seems basically each i6 ME4.4 would be a pretty bespoke one.
It's not really very hard, just time consuming. There is a tuning program out there called WinOLS, and they have files to decipher the hex available for just about every european ECU. That's how the M4.4 tuning stuff for the 5cyls got so advanced, they transcribed a copy of the 5-cyl turbo DAMOS file (the interpreter) into an XDF for tunerpro. Then it was hundreds of pages of testing to figure out how to make it all work together. Thanks to them, it's pretty easy to figure out the maps in the B6304 M4.4 ecu, they're mostly the same but at different addresses in the hex. I've basically taken the 5-cyl turbo XDF and am adjusting it for the 6-cyl non-turbo. I do this for fun, so to me, my time isn't worth anything if I can share what I've learned. I've looked for a B6xx DAMOS file, which would have addresses of EVERYTHING in it, but I haven't found one yet. They're not growing on trees for 20+ year old ECUs anymore.

The turbo 607/608 XDFs from Volvospeed are built specifically for the 607 and 608 software files, so they won't work with anything other than those two specific ones. There are quite a few turbo files out there for the S/V70, but they're basically interchangeable. Same goes for the 6-cyl ecus. The XDF I'm working on will be made around one specific file that will have to be used with it. None of the others will work (out of the box, anyway).
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2019, 09:30 AM   #5
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 955IsAlive View Post
I loaded up a 960bin (well ori) with what I believe to be an 850 turbo XDF and at a cursory glance it seems like nothing really lines up? Which makes we wonder... What are the most important parameters we need? I think being able to tweak fuel and ignition curves would get us a long way?
The 850 turbo ran M4.3, so it's going to be different anyway. The turbo M4.4 XDFs don't work either, so I'm making one that does .

Important parameters...well...that's kinda unknown. If someone was 'tuning' an NA B6304, then you could get away with just the timing maps. If larger injectors were fitted, or a larger MAF, or a turbo, or anything that would affect the amount of fuel and air going into the engine...that's where it starts to get tricky. There is a main fuel map, but then there are many 'correction' maps, and if you miss adjusting one of them properly, the tune will be off. Seeing as how most 6-cyl swaps end up boosted, that means adjusting NA mapping for forced induction, which is trial-and-error to start. We won't have the luxury of hundreds of test subjects...mainly just a couple here and there. I've done this with OBD1 VW management, with success, but that was M2.9, and a LOT simpler.

So far it looks like I'll be able to convert most of the maps over, and add a few that aren't in the M4.4 turbo XDF that we'd possibly need, but there's no tuning recipe for boosting it as of yet. Maybe it'll be easy, if bigger injectors can be properly mapped for, since it's highly unlikely the stock fuel mapping is maxed out in NA trim. There should be room to grow, but that's going to require experimenting.
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2019, 01:59 PM   #6
955IsAlive
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: MN
Default

I thought I'd pulled an ME4.4 xdf since 4.4 is what all the fuss is about. The process reminds me a lot of playing around in hex and machine code on my 68k Atari ST when I was a kid.

For me, once I can pull the timing back some I think that would help build some headroom with the 10.7:1 compression. Like you say, MAF scaling fueling and whatever else might be more involved.
955IsAlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 10:16 AM   #7
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

You're correct, I'm wrong. There are 850 M4.4 turbo xdfs and bins, I found some last night. My apologies .
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 01:22 PM   #8
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

First post updated with an INCOMPLETE xdf and the bin file to use with it. The checksum plugin for the 5-cyl M4.4 ecus seems to work perfectly, which is good.
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 03:07 PM   #9
955IsAlive
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: MN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke4speed View Post
First post updated with an INCOMPLETE xdf and the bin file to use with it. The checksum plugin for the 5-cyl M4.4 ecus seems to work perfectly, which is good.
Niiiiice! Thanks so much for this.

I have a 960 and two .ori files that I found for ME4.4:

Volvo 960 2.9 B6304 0261200528 357234
Volvo-960-B6304-204HP-P01270422-0261203239-355780

The first one was way different, but the second one seems to line up.



Probably safest to get the equipment and download a copy of my own BIN huh?
Maybe rename your attachment and xdf file with a version number like 001 or something so we can keep track of changes?
955IsAlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 03:12 PM   #10
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

The bin file I included in the zip file is the one that's matched to the XDF. The second bin you used is one byte off, which will still line up...but not completely. You can see this by the way the first row in the main fuel map is not quite the same as the others. Most of the bins should be interchangeable, but that would involve testing.

If you can get the gear to read/write to the ecu, I could arrange the XDF to match it, if it didn't already. It's not that hard.
Check the M4.4 wiki (http://m44.wikia.com/wiki/M44_Wiki) for what you'll need. It's pretty simple .

You'll also notice that some of the maps are duplicated (upper bank). I have no idea why Bosch does this, but it's prevalent in ALL the motronic stuff I've looked at. If you make changes to one map, and there's an 'upper bank' duplicate...change that one too, just in case.
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 03:20 PM   #11
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

A note: The turbo 5-cyl xdf shows that as far as airflow/load goes, the difference between 5 turbo and 6 NA isn't that much. If you look at the load axis' on the main fuel and ignition maps, it's pretty clear that the stock 6cyl never maxes the table out at WOT. That means there's probably some room to grow on the stock map if boost was added. The turbo ignition maps could probably be swapped over as well, but that would be experimental for sure.
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 03:28 PM   #12
955IsAlive
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: MN
Default

Thanks, I downloaded a copy of the wiki in case it disappears off the internet. Yep I used the S90 bin you included to see if what I had was in ballpark. The ori that I have that's 1 byte off.... are you talking about the second one that I added the screenshot for?

The airflow being close on the 5 and 6 makes sense because they are similarish power? Although I would expect the turbo 5 to have more airflow at the lower RPM ranges at WOT?

I have a VAG-COM cable that I think is the right chipset, so that's a thing.

Ordered this this stepup adapter. It has two screw-in terminals so that's nice. You can input 5v from USB or 12V from your cig lighter.
$8.99 incl shipping

[IMG][/IMG]

Looking for a guide on how to download/backup my stock bin

Last edited by 955IsAlive; 02-03-2019 at 03:43 PM..
955IsAlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 03:42 PM   #13
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

Yeah, the one you included in the screenshot, that's the one that's offset by a byte overall.

The values in the main fuel map are just a base. Both files have correction factors that come in to play later, under different conditions, so I wouldn't worry about the differences in the fuel tables. The ignition tables are the good ones, for a +T setup .

The AFM/MAF maps are unavailable through traditional means though, which sucks. There is a utility available (again, thanks to the M4.4 5-cyl tuners) to adjust for larger MAF housings, but it doesn't work with the 6 cyl file. That would be terrific to have access to, especially for boost.
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 04:41 PM   #14
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

...and I found the MAF tables. They're two 8-bit tables in a 16-bit dataset. Not totally sure how they integrate, but that's why the Flying Spaghetti Monster gave me brains and the internet.

[edit] lernin' ain't neceseery! http://m44.wikia.com/wiki/MAF_Archived_Footage
By using using the MAF correction utility I can see how the hex changes and then make changes in the hex itself to account for larger MAFs.

Last edited by Broke4speed; 02-03-2019 at 04:48 PM..
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 04:50 PM   #15
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 955IsAlive View Post
[IMG][/IMG]

Looking for a guide on how to download/backup my stock bin
The reading/writing can be done via tunerpro plugins. It's all in the wiki .

I found the MAF tables, and how to modify them http://m44.wikia.com/wiki/MAF_Archived_Footage, so if you were to get the 540i MAF housing, the ECU might be able to compensate for the larger injectors with the fuel trims.
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 05:08 PM   #16
955IsAlive
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: MN
Default

I'll keep looking at the wiki re downloading.

I made this little table of the MAFs listed on the wiki to display (probable) max HP (gas assumed as fuel)
955IsAlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 05:12 PM   #17
955IsAlive
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: MN
Default

I'll buy this cheapo 540i MAF for the housing and ditch the sensor from it.

$19.49 on amazon prime

[IMG][/IMG]

Although I could run the stock MAF to start off with low boost.

Last edited by 955IsAlive; 02-03-2019 at 05:41 PM..
955IsAlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 05:33 PM   #18
955IsAlive
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: MN
Default

Doesn't look like we can use that MAF correction tool with the S90 bin?
Here's some of what I got. I started at 1.2V because thats what VADIS said is the lowest expected voltage at idle.



Last edited by 955IsAlive; 02-03-2019 at 05:39 PM..
955IsAlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 05:48 PM   #19
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

That utility won't work, because the S90 MAF data is at a different address in the bin than the 5-cyl turbo stuff. The program is written specifically for the 5-cyl turbo bins.
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 06:12 PM   #20
955IsAlive
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: MN
Default

Makes sense. In terms of buying a spare ECM to have on hand. Can I get "any" ME4.4 unit and flash it with the 960 bin, or would I need a 960 (six cylinder) specific 4.4 ECM?
955IsAlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 06:24 PM   #21
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

That's a good question. The 5-cyl turbo engines on M4.4 are all distributor-based, whereas the 6-cyl M4.4 cars have coil-on-plug and no distributor. There are modifications that can be made to the 5-cyl ECU to allow it to run coil-on-plug ignition and do away with the distributor though, and those mods are based on the 6-cyl ecu schematic IIRC. Perhaps a 5-cyl turbo ecu could be converted to run a 6-cylinder engine? It would probably be easier to find a 6-cyl ecu though, and cheaper. The 5-cyl conversion is not an open-source kinda thing. VAST Tuning does it.

I've figured out the conversion to combine two 8-bit integers into a 16-bit value, thanks to the internet . It's not super helpful, but it does add a piece to the puzzle. I'll post a new xdf with the MAF tables soon.
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 07:13 PM   #22
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

New XDF added to the first post. I've added the MAF table locations, but they're kinda useless right now. Suffice to say the 5-cyl turbo MAF maxes out at 826 kg/h, and the 6-cyl MAF maxes at 972 kg/h, so there's definitely room for mild boost on the stock 960/S90 MAF. Moving to the BMW 540i housing would be a good mod though.
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 07:14 PM   #23
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 955IsAlive View Post
I'll keep looking at the wiki re downloading.

I made this little table of the MAFs listed on the wiki to display (probable) max HP (gas assumed as fuel)
The conversion factors don't work for us, since our MAF is larger so we'd need to determine the factor for our starting point. Also, the 960/S90 maxes at 972 kg/h according to the hex.
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 09:32 PM   #24
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

Late night update. I THINK I found the rev limiters and possibly the injector constant. They're in the new XDF up top.

If anyone out there has a running M4.4 960/S90 and an Ostrich or flash cable...could I get you to test the injector constant and rev limits? I'm working blind, lol.
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2019, 10:16 PM   #25
955IsAlive
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: MN
Default

Looks like I can't backup the stock firmware without a EEPROM programmer.

I have Motronic suite, i'll check for the part number of my ECU in there. Otherwise I guess I'll have to wait until I get a spare ECU.

Good point on distributor vs COP ignition. I guess if I’m buying a spare I need to make sure I
The MAF Flow numbers I pulled from the m4.4 wiki, wonder why the value for the 960 2.75” MAF is different.

I’ll give a flash a go during the week and test the RPM limiter. I’ll lower it vs raise it ��
If you can give me an idea of how to test the other parameters I’m game to do it.

First I’ll download my bin and make sure it’s lined up with the XDF you have.

Thanks again for your work.
I created a github repository so we can track changes and follow versions of the XDF and perhaps other files.
Should make easier for other to find via google too.

https://github.com/pulsatemedia/Volv...o-XDF-Motronic

Last edited by 955IsAlive; 02-03-2019 at 11:12 PM..
955IsAlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:51 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.