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Atom's Amazon Wagon Project Update Thread

It's OK, I don't mind the concern or the comments.

No fuel system
No electrical system
No engine wiring (including ECU and tuning)
No interior
No room for cooling fans
Engine needed to be pulled back out and engine compartment repainted
I was concerned about the mounting system for the rear suspension
The rear suspension was too wide necessitating MASSIVE negative camber


It looked close. In reality it was far off.

I will say that I'm unclear how this is more of a bag of worms than what I had already opened. This route will allow me to have one vehicle to be able to get parts for. Also allows for the massive amount of available tech support and upgrades that have already been worked out. I need repair parts, performance parts or decide I want to upgrade, I get info for a BMW E30 (for which there is an entire race circuit already in place). If anything I've eased my path moving forward. No more "It's a timing belt from an 850 on a marine motor with a VW tensioner and a Toyota transmission being run with a Mitsubishi distributor. Oh, and the rotors are Mitsubishi and calipers are Volvo.....I think".

Thank you for the concern.

I hate having to get replacement parts for my 122... started keeping a binder with part numbers for this reason...
 
No fuel system

The stock tank would fit the way you did the body IIRC, add an external electric pump and some 3/8" fuel line.

No electrical system

http://www.americanautowire.com/ This is what I used, EZ install and plenty of circuits for everything you'd ever need.

No engine wiring (including ECU and tuning)

https://www.diyautotune.com/shop/megasquirt-assembled/microsquirt/
I think there's a whole thread about using this on TB.


No interior

I drove mine for years without an interior, no big deal. Get it done when you can.


No room for cooling fans

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mez-wp136s/overview/
This was a possible solution, you could have eliminated the water pump and made an adapter plate for the e-pump outlet. This would give you a lot more room to fit a fan. You could have also reversed the coolant flow so that the head received the cooled water first as is done on modern cars. The head makes the most heat so it makes no sense to send cooled water to the block so that it is hotter when it reaches the head.

Engine needed to be pulled back out and engine compartment repainted

So to avoid pulling the engine you cut the body off the pan? That simplifies things:lol:

I was concerned about the mounting system for the rear suspension
The rear suspension was too wide necessitating MASSIVE negative camber


Have you seen the engineering Canuck is doing on his 122? IIRC he had the same IRS in his car and made it work by narrowing. I narrowed the Jag IRS in my car, it's not that hard if you pencil it out and take your time. I know you have the skills.


Atom D&D, I appreciate that you get that not everyone will hop on the bandwagon and differing opinions aren't condemnations. I saw your car at IPD and thought it was really coming along great. I was just sorry to see you give up after investing so much time and money. Again, there are no problems, only solutions! Some just take longer to find than others.

Harlard, my "attitude" comes from years of experience building cars. I've seen to many projects lost to easily surmountable problems. As I said I was sorry to see this car so close to completion only to get blown up, SAD!:oogle:
 
You have to understand that the guy putting it together isn't as inexperienced as you seem to assume.
 
I like the combo of BMW and classic 122 wagon. Doing something similar myself by dropping a P1800 ES on to a Miata chassis.

What most don't realize is that once you get past the sheer audacity of cutting the body off of one car and grafting it on to the chassis of another, this is not rocket science.

People who tell you that this is a waste of $$$ and that the point is to drive the car just don't get that the creative process can be an end in itself; you can buy a car if you just want to drive. Some people have imaginations and creative urges that need to be fed.

The big caliper to measure the sills was brilliant. Wish I thought of that.

MpUdHGv.jpg
 
No fuel system

The stock tank would fit the way you did the body IIRC, add an external electric pump and some 3/8" fuel line.

No electrical system

http://www.americanautowire.com/ This is what I used, EZ install and plenty of circuits for everything you'd ever need.

No engine wiring (including ECU and tuning)

https://www.diyautotune.com/shop/megasquirt-assembled/microsquirt/
I think there's a whole thread about using this on TB.


No interior

I drove mine for years without an interior, no big deal. Get it done when you can.


No room for cooling fans

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mez-wp136s/overview/
This was a possible solution, you could have eliminated the water pump and made an adapter plate for the e-pump outlet. This would give you a lot more room to fit a fan. You could have also reversed the coolant flow so that the head received the cooled water first as is done on modern cars. The head makes the most heat so it makes no sense to send cooled water to the block so that it is hotter when it reaches the head.

Engine needed to be pulled back out and engine compartment repainted

So to avoid pulling the engine you cut the body off the pan? That simplifies things:lol:

I was concerned about the mounting system for the rear suspension
The rear suspension was too wide necessitating MASSIVE negative camber


Have you seen the engineering Canuck is doing on his 122? IIRC he had the same IRS in his car and made it work by narrowing. I narrowed the Jag IRS in my car, it's not that hard if you pencil it out and take your time. I know you have the skills.


Atom D&D, I appreciate that you get that not everyone will hop on the bandwagon and differing opinions aren't condemnations. I saw your car at IPD and thought it was really coming along great. I was just sorry to see you give up after investing so much time and money. Again, there are no problems, only solutions! Some just take longer to find than others.

Harlard, my "attitude" comes from years of experience building cars. I've seen to many projects lost to easily surmountable problems. As I said I was sorry to see this car so close to completion only to get blown up, SAD!:oogle:

I will say that I think we've reached a fundamental disconnect though. I'm saying that I didn't feel the path I was on was the best route for what I have available. Funds, lack of shop and over complication of the vehicle. I think every solution you suggested added to the complication as well as timeline and cost. I'm considering what I've done as a "reset" of sorts. At this point it is what it is. I don't think I really need to spend any more time justifying the route I've chosen. Hopefully you can keep an eye on the build and when I'm done we can meet up for a beer and discuss the decision.
 
I like the combo of BMW and classic 122 wagon. Doing something similar myself by dropping a P1800 ES on to a Miata chassis.

What most don't realize is that once you get past the sheer audacity of cutting the body off of one car and grafting it on to the chassis of another, this is not rocket science.

People who tell you that this is a waste of $$$ and that the point is to drive the car just don't get that the creative process can be an end in itself; you can buy a car if you just want to drive. Some people have imaginations and creative urges that need to be fed.

The big caliper to measure the sills was brilliant. Wish I thought of that.

MpUdHGv.jpg

That looks awesome!! I did consider Miata. In fact I went to look at one that was for sale stripped down to the chassis. My only real turn off was lack of a rear seat. I realize I won't have my wife and both kids with me most of the time, but having the ability to take them if I wanted seemed like a good idea.
 
How about some more pictures. Nothing major has happened, but I did have to move the filler neck to the passengers side to connect to the BMW filler. I also finally got around to designing and fabricating the hinge system for the taillight.

ca1db9dbbccd5257ff7a4e64c9baff98.jpg
9cdf921e0d041d21bfd616c1de9a62a9.jpg
9270a9584900b7c3703e7fdeddfb11c6.jpg
63b84d945749ebe38d5a110ab7ebd01b.jpg
fea323d33f1059179585c84eac8ee8f4.jpg
55b4de4f709795ad0167b18cdbac8d07.jpg
a3e19e9dc69417a9ea6047bccb525cb1.jpg
 
Maybe he likes the E30 drivetrain. Ever thought about that?

I do like it. I also like the fact I can just buy stuff. I don't HAVE to create from scratch, "figure it out" or "make it work". I also appreciate the history of modifications the E30 has had. If I decide to engine swap at some point it's all been done, info gathered and available. I can make all sorts of handling improvements if I decide it needs it with off the shelf components. Another big thing for me recently was the carpet kit. I :love::love::love: new carpet. I don't have to cut, sew, serge something. I can just order it in any color I want. It's already molded to fit.
 
I do like it. I also like the fact I can just buy stuff. I don't HAVE to create from scratch, "figure it out" or "make it work". I also appreciate the history of modifications the E30 has had. If I decide to engine swap at some point it's all been done, info gathered and available. I can make all sorts of handling improvements if I decide it needs it with off the shelf components. Another big thing for me recently was the carpet kit. I :love::love::love: new carpet. I don't have to cut, sew, serge something. I can just order it in any color I want. It's already molded to fit.

You and I are on the same page with this thinking. While I did get sidetracked by doing a V8 conversion to the Miata chassis, I still have a car that is not a "One off" when it comes to getting parts to keep it on the road. Both the Miata foundation and the Ford 302 drivetrain parts are going to be on every NAPA parts shelf for a long time and at low prices.

The other thing that needs to be weighed is the amount of production quality engineering that comes with a chassis swap. Everything from engine mounts, to HVAC and suspension geometry has been done by engineers who have a wealth of tools, resources and validation methods. Aftermarket suppliers who make parts to upgrade our old cars cant compete with this.

You were wise in not picking the Miata as a foundation: The wheelbase is off and it would really need an engine upgrade to meet my expectations. Stretching the wheelbase 7" is not something I will do again.
 
I will say that I think we've reached a fundamental disconnect though. I'm saying that I didn't feel the path I was on was the best route for what I have available. Funds, lack of shop and over complication of the vehicle. I think every solution you suggested added to the complication as well as timeline and cost. I'm considering what I've done as a "reset" of sorts. At this point it is what it is. I don't think I really need to spend any more time justifying the route I've chosen. Hopefully you can keep an eye on the build and when I'm done we can meet up for a beer and discuss the decision.

OK, I'm good with that.
 
I do like it. I also like the fact I can just buy stuff. I don't HAVE to create from scratch, "figure it out" or "make it work". I also appreciate the history of modifications the E30 has had. If I decide to engine swap at some point it's all been done, info gathered and available. I can make all sorts of handling improvements if I decide it needs it with off the shelf components. Another big thing for me recently was the carpet kit. I :love::love::love: new carpet. I don't have to cut, sew, serge something. I can just order it in any color I want. It's already molded to fit.

Yep! That basically means work smarter not harder :) great work, love the 56 Chevy style tail light/ filler neck
 
I like the combo of BMW and classic 122 wagon. Doing something similar myself by dropping a P1800 ES on to a Miata chassis.

What most don't realize is that once you get past the sheer audacity of cutting the body off of one car and grafting it on to the chassis of another, this is not rocket science.

People who tell you that this is a waste of $$$ and that the point is to drive the car just don't get that the creative process can be an end in itself; you can buy a car if you just want to drive. Some people have imaginations and creative urges that need to be fed.

The big caliper to measure the sills was brilliant. Wish I thought of that.

MpUdHGv.jpg

Can I steal this pic? It's a perfect representation to get other people to understand visually what I'm doing.
 
Can I steal this pic?

I highly advocate theft! Help yourself and if there are any more view you need, like the bottom ( car went on rotisserie) I would be happy to dig them up; did want to hijack your thread with my project. I would point you to the build thread, but Photobucket pretty much killed that.
 
I highly advocate theft! Help yourself and if there are any more view you need, like the bottom ( car went on rotisserie) I would be happy to dig them up; did want to hijack your thread with my project. I would point you to the build thread, but Photobucket pretty much killed that.

I spent a good chunk of my day last Saturday reading on Grassroots. Photobucket sucks.
 
I do like it. I also like the fact I can just buy stuff. I don't HAVE to create from scratch, "figure it out" or "make it work". I also appreciate the history of modifications the E30 has had. If I decide to engine swap at some point it's all been done, info gathered and available. I can make all sorts of handling improvements if I decide it needs it with off the shelf components. Another big thing for me recently was the carpet kit. I :love::love::love: new carpet. I don't have to cut, sew, serge something. I can just order it in any color I want. It's already molded to fit.
This is a large part of why I like Volvo's. Each car is unique because you can't just buy stuff.

But to each their own, you do you bro. ;-)
 
This is a large part of why I like Volvo's. Each car is unique because you can't just buy stuff.

But to each their own, you do you bro. ;-)

Would you have to take your shoes off to count the number of E30 chassis'ed Amazons? I'm pretty sure that when it comes down to my detail work they'll be plenty for me to customize and it won't be the same as everyone else's. The difference is that then I'll be customizing because I want to, not because I have to.
 
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