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16V + T head porting and cam guide?

zhor

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
Hi, I use 940 with b234 and have plan to turbo it for daily drive.
this engine dyno show 136 HP (flywheel) with 180 NM.Tq

first glance at the cam and result are
inlet 9.35mm@270
Ext 9.2mm@240head,
So i sent cam to regrind, but i have no idea about the profile, because I still blank about head flow, so i decide to strip down

At HEAD,
I found very via that intake valve are bigger (35-30 mm) but
"Intake Port is very small compare wit Exhaust port"!!?
(port size tall/wide int 26/46 mm VS 30/50 exh)

I did search but not found mention about size comparing
found Int head flow choke at approx 230 cfm. @11mm lift

I found some attempt on port size and divider porting, he got some gain only low lift?
that means inlet valve size is limit? but why exhaust port is so large?

I hope to get 260-280 CFM on this head
because the target is daily drive (100km/day on working day) with fuel economy, compression is set to 11.0 with E85 and low boost (7-8 psi)

So, please guide me,
Should I port it? if yes How?
and camshaft profile recommend?

Thanks in advance.
 
attach pic

https://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt219/zhorzhor/IMG_20190913_170403_zpsz8quxksv.jpg



https://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt219/zhorzhor/IMG_20191015_214819_zpsv7oafzsn.jpg

IMG_20191015_214819_zpsv7oafzsn.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
Where are you located, and what power and torque are you looking for?

I had some ~270deg & 11mm of lift cams ground for a NA 16v (they were fun!). They're currently being used on a turbo car, but they haven't been fully dialed in yet.

For porting, the intake bowl area can be cleaned up, and the hump on the outer wall of the runners can be removed/smoothed over.

Also, your photobucket links are not coming in so clear.
 
136/180Nm, seems like something is not OK, especially with 11:1 compression ratio.

Why not run 8 psi on a stock engine? Why do you need such flow numbers?

Isn't it easier to get a decent set of pistons/rods and run higher boost?
 
check out the porting threads on savarturbo.se

280 is a fairly reasonable goal for stock sized valves on a 16v head.
 
136/180Nm, seems like something is not OK, especially with 11:1 compression ratio.

Why not run 8 psi on a stock engine? Why do you need such flow numbers?

Isn't it easier to get a decent set of pistons/rods and run higher boost?

Agreed.

OP:
What size turbo do you have mounted up?
What are you using for tuning?
 
Last edited:
I think he was talking about OP's engine dyno numbers of 136hp. Which is low, for flywheel numbers, but without knowing the whole setup and state of tune could be plausible without indicating a problem.
 
Thanks for responses,

Sorry that i gave so unclear information.

Start
The car is 940GLE 1992 engine is B230F
I drive 100 Km every working day.
Dyno result of Stock 8v is 105 Hp. / 160 Nm. flywheel.
this terrible drive. with bad fuel consumption, E10 7.5-8.0 Km./Lite.
Here E85 is 35% cheaper,
so I change injector size to 310c cand ran E85, seem better urban 7.0-7.5 Km./Lite

Improved on 8V
Garrett Turbo A/R 0.60 ballbearing was installed, 440 cc injector, fuel regulator set 2.5 bar.
Increase CR by shaving head out 2.0 m, (210-220 psi at test gauge, VX3 with +8deg advance cam)
Under boost, it can run only e85, heavy knock on E10.
With E85, Dyno show 155 Hp/ 240 Nm.
it had 7.0-7.5 Km./Lite the same N/A with low CR.
that's it.
I loved this, and ran it years. till overhaul time.

Currently
I keep b230 in the garage still not overhaul yet, change to B234F and daily use it,
Fuel consumption Look better, E85, urban 7.5-8 Km./Lite.
Dyno result on 16V, with e85 310cc injector, approx 136 Hp. /180NM.

Power still not Ok for daily drive now a day.

So I decide to buy another shotblock(b234F) and plan to built B230f+16V head with Turbo for use daily with ZF automatic Trans.

The fuel economics is most concern on this.
Hope to get max power around 250-280 on flywheel with 7.5-8.0 Km./Lite as same.

these all history.
 
Things done
-Turbo I have A/R 0.6 Garrett onhand so i plan to use it.
-Exhaust manifold, I fabricated Log style header.
-Changed piston from 234 to 230 to solve interfere.
-I sent cam to regrind, but still blank about the profile,
maesuring of standard cam are
Int. open 135deg(270) at 9.35 mm
Exh. open 120deg(240) at 9.20 mm

Here is so hot, on road 35-45 deg C, all year, ZF trans normally press RPM under 3000 and fuel economis is major concern,
for 8V boost start 3200 rpm, drive so hard, i need to kick down every time for boost, fuel consumption seem so bad. So i change smaller exhaust housing( from#5 to #3), 2600 rpm boost start and this very response. then I increase boost to 12Psi, response seem lag to 3200 rpm again, i try smaller (#1) but just alittle change, 3000+, it need flow to make boost. then i run 7-8 psi to optimum power and rpm.

that why i call for low boost+high flow head, (7-8 Psi/ 250+ CFM, need boost start from 2000+ rpm)

Plan to do.
-Increase Static CR. from now stock 10.5, gauge read 160-170 psi, to 12 or more. (210-220 at gauge) but still don't know how, :lol::lol::lol:
-Head Porting? thats the question:oops::oops::oops:
-Change cam profile for turbo application, less overlap higher lift? up to head:oops:
-Intake manifold, up to head too.

Main question is how to get more flow from head.
I look for many head topic include flow form ford, they done massive porting, my target just 20% more,
another point is normally i saw intake port always bigger than exhaust, but on B234 it reverse?

Please advice me.
Thanks in advance.
 
What are you using for engine management or ECU? Stock Bosch, or something aftermarket?
What is the exact size of the turbo? Part number, or link to what it is? There are a lot of turbos that would fit the description you have given, and they all would behave drastically different.

If you only want a 250 hp and good fuel mileage, a turbo and the 16v head would be no problem. There is no need to port the head for that power level.
The downside to the small turbo is that the exhaust housing will limit flow. You must have a wastegate that will bypass enough exhaust as to not be a restriction.
For that power level, stock cams will also be fine.

Are you in stop and go driving, or on a highway for most of your trips? The best way to decrease fuel usage is to turn the motor slower, if you can change differential gearing or increase tire size, that will help as well.
 
Thanks
I still use stock ECU from B230f with 380cc@3Bar Injectors run E85.
Garrett M24 ball bearing, compressor wheel 60mm with A/R 0.60 housing with a ceramic turbine from Nissan,
the closest spec is "GT28RS BB"

after turbo i will change to 480cc Injector

Urban cruising is the most, now 110 km/hr @3000 RPM - 195/65/R15 tire.
 
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I measure cam myself.
the result as

Cam ID
1000-603
AA5
#284A#


Max Lift 9.35
- advertises Deg 260
- @0.1 mm Deg 238
- @0.5 mm Deg 198
- @1.0 mm Deg 172


Value as below

deg Lift(mm)
0 0
10 0
20 0
30 0
40 0
50 0.03
60 0.07
70 0.19
80 0.42
90 0.75
100 1.31
110 1.78
120 2.65
130 3.55
140 4.89
150 6.16
160 7.82
170 8.72
180 9.35
190 9.02
200 7.95
210 6.44
220 4.86
230 3.74
240 2.91
250 2.02
260 1.44
270 1.04
280 0.55
290 0.28
300 0.11
310 0.02
320 0
330 0
340 0
350 0
 
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Update

Turbo applied.
First
I took out cast manifold, install exhaust manifold and turbine housing, No turbine, and run.
Power in mid and hi rpm drop, low end torque is OK.

Second
Adjustable cam sprocket: and play with it.
at : advance Ext 12 Int 0
got MASSIVE Low-end torque. car was kicked from stop...but mid and hi not impressive...I555

Third
Install Turbine blade without intake pipe, open Westgate, and run!
low-end torque drop from second, but still better than first,
change to : advance Ext 15 Int 3.

Sound of intake start about 1800 rpm

this weekend i will hook up all intake together.
and let turbo work as it should.


I plan to test with this engine to initiate and use the data to set up a new engine.

Cam and Port design still need advice.
Thanks
 
it ran under 0.5 bar boost.
Boost start since 1800 full at only 2600 rpm.

power a lot difference from N/A.
BUT...

Response is so lag??? I need to slower press pedal for full boost?!
when i kickdown, car still not pull.
Vacuum gauge suddenly become boost 0.1-0.2 bar,
but MAF signal is increased just half way and it stuck for a while then increase again?.
I try to increase fuel on that load on tuning table but it still.
my MAF locate on suction side.

I still have no idea why.

Shoude i move MAF to pressure side?
 
Thanks
I still use stock ECU from B230f with 380cc@3Bar Injectors run E85.

it ran under 0.5 bar boost.
Boost start since 1800 full at only 2600 rpm.

power a lot difference from N/A.
BUT...

Response is so lag??? I need to slower press pedal for full boost?!
when i kickdown, car still not pull.
Vacuum gauge suddenly become boost 0.1-0.2 bar,
but MAF signal is increased just half way and it stuck for a while then increase again?.
I try to increase fuel on that load on tuning table but it still.

So you are running a B234 (16v) engine with a n/a Bosch computer w/ bigger injectors? LH2.2? 2.4?

Are you using Ostrich or similar for tuning?

EZK ignition?

Did the lagging issue only start after you added boost to your 16v setup?

Do you have a wideband O2 sensor?
 
I used b230 n/a ecu (lh2.4.4) with biger injector on b234 engine.

I used piggy back to tune MAF signal and sent to ECU.
Ignition timing still EZ but also tuned by this box by cut signal between ECU to ignition module and tuned from EZ signal.

The lag happen since boost apply. N/A no issues at all .

I don't have af to read,
With n/a I tuned with wideband at dyno. At full throttle It seem lean (af 15-17) from start to 4000rpm after this it rich 11-13 to 6000. I tuned to correct it. And use since then. But after boost I still not tune it yet. Lag issue appears, I try to solve.it before dyno
For road running I need O2 and wait welder to add more plug for it.

MAF is locate at na location intake side, it quite long pipe to turbo that locate on exhaust side, then cross back to Intake side via original 940 intercooler.
I used this system without intercooler on 8v , lag issue occurs just a little and can solve by increase fuel on that stage.

For 16v it seem much more lag.
 
Today i try to reduce fuel to cure the lag problem.

It's a lot better!!!
Too rich!!!

as i mentioned before that with this modern injectors (8 hole nozzle), i found too lean since start to 4000 and then it too rich.
when boost applied, MAF signal was push higher than NA,
so i tuned table on tht rpm in rich zone.
Thats why.:lol::lol:

Now i change by reduce signal and plan to tune it on dyno with wideband as soon.

After all, O2 meter, Camshaft and Compression ratio change is the next.
 
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