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Old 01-01-2010, 04:55 PM   #1
DET17
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Question A/B cam HP increase - bone stocker B230F ?

I've been drilling the many, many cam threads here, but none seem to answer this Q.

My 89 245, is a bone stocker with AW70 autobox (shifting well, however with recent IPD flush and new filter)....guessing right around 200K miles, since just restored my odometer with the IPD gear kit.

So how many ponies is this cheapo cam swap really worth? I've found the cam specs link here, and I gather my stocker has the M cam (9.5 I lift, 242* duration). The A/B specs are damn near same, with 10.5 I lift, 254* duration). BTW, are these duration specs absolute, or measured at 0.050" lift like USA cam specs (or some mm lift) where "real flow" begins ???

Got to change my timing belt/tensioner soon, so I'm gonna be half way or better to a cam swap anyway. These A/B cams seem to be for sale almost weekly for $50.....so If I'm going to gain some seat of the pants improvement, I will probably go for it. If the AW70 will nullify any gains and/or kill my mileage, then I might leave the snail cam in place.

Thanks in advance, cam wizards.

Last edited by DET17; 01-03-2010 at 09:17 AM..
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:49 PM   #2
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It's more that the cam different than the M will shift the power band and make the the car a lot more fun to drive. The engine will actually rev over 3000 rpm. It makes the car faster since it makes more power at the end of the gear. I do not think they will significantly change the peak power numbers.

So yes, swap out the M cam.
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Old 01-01-2010, 06:10 PM   #3
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I swapped M cam to A cam a month ago and man!!! It`s a change, when M cam hit 3000rpm the engine started to die, now with A cam is`t a whole different story revs to 4500 easy and more...just keeps going...so you won`t miss the M cam...about 10hp increase is possible.
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Old 01-01-2010, 06:13 PM   #4
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I change few weeks ago the "M" cam to a "A" cam + a Dale's gear. I try it straight up and +2 deg. Results are:the powerband is from 2500 to 6000 rpm @ 0 and from 2300 to 5800/6000 rpm @ +2. The powergain is aproximatly 10/15 hp. With my setup, it's a good improvment.
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Old 01-01-2010, 06:15 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Roy 940 View Post
I change few weeks ago the "M" cam to a "A" cam + a Dale's gear. I try it straight up and +2 deg. Results are:the powerband is from 2500 to 6000 rpm @ 0 and from 2300 to 5800/6000 rpm @ +2. The powergain is aproximatly 10/15 hp. With my setup, it's a good improvment.
I would need Dale`s gear to advance my cam...soon...
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Old 01-01-2010, 06:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Milos Protic View Post
I would need Dale`s gear to advance my cam...soon...
It's very simple to do and the difference is very sensible! Enjoy it!
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Old 01-01-2010, 07:25 PM   #7
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yeah i really liked the A cam in my B230F. Revs past 3500 rpm (up to 5000 rpm roughly on my setup). Can touch rev limiter but that is of no use though.
Torque with the A cam is very good. Maybe from 800-1200-1500 rpm a bit less but after that it is much better. With a bit more ignition advance you will gain more torque than you lost.
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Old 01-01-2010, 11:24 PM   #8
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Not to hijack the thread but I was considering to buy a B cam for my stock b230f, But it is likely that I'm going to +t it in the near future. Would I still want to buy a B cam or wait and buy a T cam when I do the +t?
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Old 01-02-2010, 12:06 AM   #9
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A or B will work with a +T. The T cam is not a performance cam, so I would advise against the T cam.
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Old 01-02-2010, 12:59 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by towerymt View Post
A or B will work with a +T. The T cam is not a performance cam, so I would advise against the T cam.
Ah ok, I thought they wouldn't work.

Last edited by T3hw1nn3r; 01-02-2010 at 02:04 AM..
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Old 01-02-2010, 01:09 PM   #11
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Both the A and B cam have been used in turbo engines by Volvo as well as the n/a engines. With the n/a engines you will get about a 10hp increase but the main difference is that you get an engine that revs more freely. Has a wide powerband while still easily passing emissions.

My suggestion would be to pay the extra money for a street performance cam like the enem V15 or one of the other available cams from RSI, Knox Motorsports, and IPD.
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Old 01-02-2010, 06:28 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
Both the A and B cam have been used in turbo engines by Volvo as well as the n/a engines. With the n/a engines you will get about a 10hp increase but the main difference is that you get an engine that revs more freely. Has a wide powerband while still easily passing emissions.

My suggestion would be to pay the extra money for a street performance cam like the enem V15 or one of the other available cams from RSI, Knox Motorsports, and IPD.
You're right, but for 50$... "A" cam is a good choice...!
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Old 01-02-2010, 08:00 PM   #13
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While nearly all of the available factory cams will offer a noticable performance gain over the M cam, they're still factory cams and therefore arent really a 'peformance' cam - this includes the VX and VX3 camshafts.

If you want something inexpensive and dont really plan on doing too much more to the car, the A or B cams are a great alternative to the M cam that came in your B230F and I'd guess that it'd be worth perhaps 5hp but the gains would be in moving the area where in makes power into a more sensible range.

As the others have said, there are aftermarket options out there if you want a performance focused camshaft.

I have an article with specs of all the factory cams that I can email across if you'd like. Just drop me a PM.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:25 AM   #14
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Thanks Ash for the article and factory cam details.

I just purchased a B cam from a fellow TB'er, so once she is received I'll give you the stamped part# for your article, and recorded here for posterity. Also planning to ship my pulley to Avalanche to get it drilled for degreeing options. I'm reading that these A/B cams would probably run best in the NA configuration with some slight advance, maybe 2* or 4*....

BTW, no one has answered my early Q about the duration of factory cams. Are these duration angles quoted as absolute, or some baseline lift where "real flow" begins? The good old boys building US cams have used th 0.050 INCH standard forever, to nullify the various ramps used by the plethora of cam makers.

Please advise, thanks!


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Originally Posted by ashvolvo View Post
While nearly all of the available factory cams will offer a noticable performance gain over the M cam, they're still factory cams and therefore arent really a 'peformance' cam - this includes the VX and VX3 camshafts.

If you want something inexpensive and dont really plan on doing too much more to the car, the A or B cams are a great alternative to the M cam that came in your B230F and I'd guess that it'd be worth perhaps 5hp but the gains would be in moving the area where in makes power into a more sensible range.

As the others have said, there are aftermarket options out there if you want a performance focused camshaft.

I have an article with specs of all the factory cams that I can email across if you'd like. Just drop me a PM.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DET17 View Post
BTW, no one has answered my early Q about the duration of factory cams. Are these duration angles quoted as absolute, or some baseline lift where "real flow" begins? The good old boys building US cams have used th 0.050 INCH standard forever, to nullify the various ramps used by the plethora of cam makers.
If only every swedish cam maker did the same... Almost each of the aftermarket camshaft producers for Volvos measure in different ways, some at .000", .020", .022"? There was a camshaft page that some old timer had put together but it looks like the link is down now. It listed which ones were measured where.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:23 PM   #16
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I found this very useful. http://www.turbobricks.com/resources...ontent=camspec

You probably have already had a look at it though.
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:54 AM   #17
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I found this very useful. http://www.turbobricks.com/resources...ontent=camspec

You probably have already had a look at it though.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:18 PM   #18
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hey all, new to this board (1st post) but I've been reading the threads like a muthaf-er lol. Anyway, I couldn't find where anyone had specifically addressed the positives/negatives of using the T cam in a N/A B230F.. I just acquired a rustfree EuroDelivery 1990 245 that has the M cam. I'm interested in increasing lowend and midrange power specifically..(say 2000 to about 5000 tops)..has anyone done this? I hear/read that the T cam is also a "bottom feeder" like the M, but with more up top than the M..
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:25 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by NAD_1990245 View Post
hey all, new to this board (1st post) but I've been reading the threads like a muthaf-er lol. Anyway, I couldn't find where anyone had specifically addressed the positives/negatives of using the T cam in a N/A B230F.. I just acquired a rustfree EuroDelivery 1990 245 that has the M cam. I'm interested in increasing lowend and midrange power specifically..(say 2000 to about 5000 tops)..has anyone done this? I hear/read that the T cam is also a "bottom feeder" like the M, but with more up top than the M..
Just get a B or A. T and M suck.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD_1990245 View Post
I couldn't find where anyone had specifically addressed the positives/negatives of using the T cam in a N/A
Your question answered.

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Originally Posted by DurableSwedish View Post
what about T cam in an n/a? would it cause an increase in torque at an expense of hp?
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Originally Posted by volvero View Post
I've tried a T cam in a N/A B200E and it sucks! absolutely no power from 2500 rpm up.....it's just the lack of overlap that makes it a bad cam for a N/A car.
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpo...4&postcount=13

Avoid the T cam unless you plan on pulling tree stumps.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by DET17 View Post
TBTW, no one has answered my early Q about the duration of factory cams. Are these duration angles quoted as absolute, or some baseline lift where "real flow" begins? Please advise, thanks!
It is my experience with the A cam compared to the B cam that it flows much more, even though the lift is similar, the duration and LSA differences are real and therefore gives much better mid-range, wider torque band, and pulls above 3000 better than most Volvo cams.

If I were to choose a good cam for the '89 lh 2.4, I would use a VX though, has better low end torque and is better matched for the elec ign that is on that car, i.e. higher lift, less duration and overlap. The A/B cam could use a wider dwell angle to provide more complete combustion across the larger duration of valve opening/overlap.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:48 AM   #22
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I agree with vvpete, the VX has great low end and midrange. Ran it on my NA autocross car advanced 3 or so degrees.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:05 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by NAD_1990245 View Post
hey all, new to this board (1st post) but I've been reading the threads like a muthaf-er lol. Anyway, I couldn't find where anyone had specifically addressed the positives/negatives of using the T cam in a N/A B230F.. I just acquired a rustfree EuroDelivery 1990 245 that has the M cam. I'm interested in increasing lowend and midrange power specifically..(say 2000 to about 5000 tops)..has anyone done this? I hear/read that the T cam is also a "bottom feeder" like the M, but with more up top than the M..
Yes, there are people who have run the T cam and find it a good improvement. Pulls slightly better than the M cam almost everywhere, if I remember correctly. More torque, good fuel economy, etc. Stealthfti and another few people have done it and recommend it if you aren't concerned about maximum HP, but are concerned about driveability and gas mileage.
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Originally Posted by vvpete View Post
It is my experience with the A cam compared to the B cam that it flows much more, even though the lift is similar, the duration and LSA differences are real and therefore gives much better mid-range, wider torque band, and pulls above 3000 better than most Volvo cams.

If I were to choose a good cam for the '89 lh 2.4, I would use a VX though, has better low end torque and is better matched for the elec ign that is on that car, i.e. higher lift, less duration and overlap. The A/B cam could use a wider dwell angle to provide more complete combustion across the larger duration of valve opening/overlap.
The A is a smaller cam than the B cam when looking at duration and peak lift alone. As I think I said before to you elsewhere(in the many cam threads)... I've run both in my engine, but not back to back. The A cam was a torque monster, I don't remember the B being as strong down low, but it did ok up top.

For LH, the VX is a better cam to run than the A or B if you are concerned about idle quality. Not that it'll be bad with the A/B, but the VX has less duration but more lift when compared with them making for a smoother, stronger idle.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:35 PM   #24
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For the record. People here spend way too much time pondering whether a stock Volvo cam like these is going to negatively affect their engine. It won't and what it will do is make your US model engine run more like an engine should. That would be using the A,B,VX, and V cams from Volvo. None of these are sporting cams. They are stock daily use of your car cams. The loss of low rpm torque is so little that it's a non issue. Have a better running car. Put the cam in.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
For the record. People here spend way too much time pondering whether a stock Volvo cam like these is going to negatively affect their engine. It won't and what it will do is make your US model engine run more like an engine should. That would be using the A,B,VX, and V cams from Volvo. None of these are sporting cams. They are stock daily use of your car cams. The loss of low rpm torque is so little that it's a non issue. Have a better running car. Put the cam in.
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