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Old 02-15-2018, 04:43 PM   #1
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Default 120A Denso

Did any of these come on a v-belt cars (maybe 960)? Or is there one on a WWD car that the pulley can be swapped and it fits? I have heard of them but cant recall seeing one in the flesh. 100A is borderline for what I'm needing. 120 will suffice. 150A would be about perfect. Bosch would work too...just never saw one over 100A.

I've seen Denso's on Jeeps pushing 200A - too much for this, but I know they're out there en mass....and easily available. Also wondering if there isn't a Denso or Bosch upgrade from another car that would fit.

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Old 02-15-2018, 05:44 PM   #2
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the 100amp bosch v-belt pulley will fit on the 120amp alternator.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:23 PM   #3
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But where do I find the 120A?
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:34 PM   #4
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Bosch makes a 120A alt for the B234 and 6cyl. My guess is the accessory bracket is different for the 16V (?!) - how different? Is this just an application note or will they not direct bolt onto a B230 bracket?
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:47 PM   #5
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I've worked on a friends 16V B234F and it had an alternator that looked like it would fit onto a B230F or FT engine. I don't know about the six cylinder though.
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:03 PM   #6
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Just browsed gcp.se and can only find 100 amp alternators on the 16V but they do look like a bolt up to the other engines. Maybe an alternator shop can give up upgraded windings in the same alternator case so you can get to 120 amps while still bolting on?
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:23 PM   #7
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FCP has a 120 for the B234 here. The B234's is definitely different - same size but different ears. There are also same case size Bosch alt's on BMW, older Benz and Saabs that are 140A.

But I dont think there's going to be any bolt on upgrades unless a case or innards are swapped. There's a place in CA that makes bolt on 150/160A Denso for 940's but not sure how much I'd trust a custom built one.

UPDATE: I think I have found a 150A that will work.....same case and according to Bosch's parts guide, even the ears are clocked the same as the 940's (which means it will also fit the 240). Going to find in a yard or order a reman from a blister pack store (that can be returned) to verify fit before diving into a new OE one.

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Old 02-20-2018, 02:23 AM   #8
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Good find. That 120 looks like it is in the same case size as the 100 amp version.

I am interested in what you come up with for the 150 amp output. Always nice to get an electric power upgrade in these cars. I always put a 80 on my older kjet cars. They came with wimpy 55 amp alternators.
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Old 02-20-2018, 02:59 AM   #9
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If it doesn't rain (again) tomorrow, I'm hitting a yard that should have the 150A sample I'm looking for. I would get it as a guinea pig or core if everything fits.....then will post what it takes. I know the lead from the starter and ground is going to need upgraded as well.

I had a voltage regulator fail at 118k....while on a high speed single lane construction with no berm and almost dark. We could have easily been killed. Less than a year later, another Bosch alt failed....at 133k....this time a diode blew. Was -18 out, snowing like h-ll and in heavy traffic. Neither time did any idiot lights come on and since there is no volt gauges in these things (yet), no warning whatsoever. I bought another battery just to get us home. I have a new Bosch alt on the car now but if this car is to be kept, it will be replaced with something better/higher output. I check the output every day with a DVOM before I drive the car. It has earned my distrust.

So I talk to a guy who rebuilt alternators for 30 yrs. He had a formula to figure what was a decent amperage to have for what the car was equipped with. On my 940T, he figured 118A-126A would cover a 'perfect storm' of heavy use / needs and that the 100A is probably pushing it. At just idling with nothing on, it sits at about 14.09. With just the headlights on, blower, the pumps, and stereo.....if the fan cycles on at idle, the DVOM will bounce between 12.9 and 13.2.....this is on an almost new Bosch 100A. So the electrical output is either going to be greatly improved....or the car is going someplace else. None of the brand names are what they used to be either.
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:03 PM   #10
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I know the s/v40 came with 120A not sure what or if you can make it fit
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:24 PM   #11
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The later stuff (new 90, 60, 70, 80, etc) had 2 OE options....150A and 180A. They're totally different animals - cases, shape, connections, etc.

I've got a copy of an old Bosch parts catalog - amazing how many came with 120A-150A alts....way back when. The cases look identical - only difference (in many) is the front case......with the mounting ears.

Doesn't mean the innards will fit, but the way the old rebuilder talked, much was the same except the cases and occasionally the shaft lengths - which makes sense for as many cars as they made for. Nothing's going to bolt on out of the box, but doesn't mean its not doable.

Nothing new with these cars.....cant buy what you want, so gotta build it.
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:44 AM   #12
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:51 PM   #13
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Some six cylinder 960 had a 120 amp alternator on them.
You can swap the front casing and pully off of a Bosch 100 amp off of a 940 turbo, and Grind off the extra rear mount.
I have done a lot of these.
Also the rear part of a Saab 9-3, 9-5 130 amp will fit on to the front of the 940 one.
The 150 amp Bosch units have bigger internal rotar and take a lot more work to fit.
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:25 PM   #14
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There is a 150A that according to the Bosch parts guide, has the same casing and rear plastic cover (PN) as the 100A Volvo. If the weather here wasn't lousy 360 days a year, I'd have one on my bench by now. The blister pack rejects dont have the cheap reman version of it, but NAPA does. I know the fella that runs it....just haven't had a chance to talk to him about ordering me one to have a look at before going all in on a new Bosch version.

Another thing to mention.....a few years back there was a guy on a board from Denmark - an electrical engineer. He went through the entire harness and measured what gauge wire Volvo used against its load and found them all to be about 1 1/2 gauges too small on every count. So even when I upgrade this, the lead wire as well as the ground is also getting upgraded. Curious if that wouldn't help even with the 100A.

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Old 02-21-2018, 06:47 PM   #15
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somebody around here took a S40 Denso 120A apart and stuck it in a Denso roadblock case, changed the pulley too
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:34 PM   #16
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Definitely curious to see how this pans out, though I'm still rocking the Mechman. That said, with everything on full tilt, from seat heaters to defrost, defrogger, heated mirrors, high beams, driving lights, e-fan on high, I was seeing right around 120A. That also includes a fuel pump that draws 15A at full tilt, though only a single pump, also includes an MSD6A, so a little higher draw there than normal. Still, a 120A should keep you going pretty well unless you have a killer sound system. Definitely want to update the wiring as well. I have #4 from the alternator to the battery, plus a #4 ground from the alternator case to the block.
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:52 PM   #17
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Getting a 120A is easy.....can just get the one for a 16V B234 and swap front housings. The case and size is identical. Thats probably my Plan B. But if the 150A will work, then why not? Going to find out one way or the other.

There's a place in Californicate that sells 160A bolt ons for 7/9's.....$305 shipped. But from some of the bad reviews I've read, I'll hold out to see if I can get the Bosch stocker to work.

Weather is supposed to be 'nice' Friday (a figurative term when living in the anal entrance to the continental united States). If so, I'm heading to the yard.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:29 AM   #18
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There's also a guy in the east somewhere, does pretty nice work. Mr. Alternator, looks like only a facebook page now. A good friend of mine bought one of his HO units for his Yota, been rock solid for the last 150k or so, and it'll handle the load he's got, with a LOT of lighting on the truck, winch, etc., been as reliable as the original, in the same case, even does pretty darn well at idle, though his idle speed is really low, around 500rpm so it had a hard time charging if he has much on, until the idle hits around 700.

That is a common issue with some of the hopped up units, which can't charge as well at lower rpm, though their capacity once the revs go up a little does increase. Should be fine if there's a stock unit rated for that capacity though, as long as you keep the ratio in check.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:09 AM   #19
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There's another place calls themselves powerbastards (?) - they've got a 210A for a 7/9 but I've heard odd things on them as well. They say its 110A at idle, then jumps to 210 at 12 or 1500rpm? Odd. Reviewers say they're the cheap knock off version of the other place that has 160A setups.

Did that Mechman come bolt on or did you have to mod it? How big is it (the alt ). I saw their site awhile back also. Just thinking if an OE Bosch will fit, I'd go with that.

My stereo is 300W (fused to an aux PAL setup), and I have the ecodes wired direct with a PAL fusebox out of a 960, so I can literally have 6 bulbs forward on at the same time (low, high and fog x2). Just lows and the fogs on together really hit it hard. All these cars when I use the power windows you can see the lights dim or hear the blower slow. There was a BMW tech that posted on a site that the Bosch controllers from about 1985 on are super sensitive to any kind of voltage issues. ?! Dunno....but with all the idle hunting that comes and goes, cluster seizures (something that really goes nuts when the alt is dying), etc - I keep wondering if any of that isn't in play here also.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:34 AM   #20
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Take a look at the GM DR44. This is basically one of those units, tweaked slightly, with a different front case. Eric should be able to give you more specific info if needed. The only modding I had to do was to trim down the lower adjuster slightly for case clearance, otherwise it was a drop-in. It is a little larger physically than the Bosch units, but it's also burly enough to know it'll put out whatever I need without working. It's rated at 170A I believe, in stock form, with my setup being able to load it with 120A at idle and have the voltage drop all of 0.2v at full load. Pretty damn impressive.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:10 AM   #21
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Will check it out. Thanks.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:27 PM   #22
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these guys have 130 & 160 small case Denso



https://www.northwestoffroad.com/parts/alternators.php
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:34 AM   #23
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I think I'm going to tackle one of these (or the 960 w/housing swap) on a 240 I'm doing at the moment. Guy wants a "killer" stereo and I need the smaller Denso so the oil pressure sender clears.
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