Ford Injectors and FPR's

Just a couple observations form my recent tinkerings in the shed.

1)Ford efi injectors from the Ford 2.3T (Brown top 35#) fit the Volvo fuel rail with NO MODS. I think it's Alvaro Gil that keeps a table with different injector flows. If anyone knows him you might tell him this so he updates the table, as it says you need a spacer. Not sure how anyone came to this conclusion.
Anyways, injectors that need spacers are the Ford CFI injectors, the bigger 46lb injectors and such. And you don't actually need a spacer, you just buy an extra 2 set of o rings and put one o ring between the fuel rail and the injector. Again, why none of the old school "gurus" have no figured this out yet i don't know. You can buy a set of 46lb CFI injectors for abot 65 bucks. These are out of most of our engine's leagues, but this might be good info for any lurking hardcores.
Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that 42lb Lime green Ford lightning injectors are also drop in, being that they are true efi injectors. They are high impedance though so mayber not a great option.

2)On another less significant note my turbo FPR from an LH 2.0 turbo sysem has a different part number than the NA 2.0 FPR. It is and 83 240 vs a 84 760, but based on the numbers I would reccomend anyone doing a turbo swap to use a turbo fpr until someone actually tests to see if NA FPR's deal with positive pressure or not. I actually think they do, but I'm not chancing it. Once my FP Gauge is in I might bolt it up for fun and confirm.

Anyhoo just some thoughts that are probably only relevant to me. But thought I'd share what i learned.

CaptainBondo said:

Just a couple observations form my recent tinkerings in the shed.

1)Ford efi injectors from the Ford 2.3T (Brown top 35#) fit the Volvo fuel rail with NO MODS. I think it's Alvaro Gil that keeps a table with different injector flows. If anyone knows him you might tell him this so he updates the table, as it says you need a spacer. Not sure how anyone came to this conclusion.
Anyways, injectors that need spacers are the Ford CFI injectors, the bigger 46lb injectors and such. And you don't actually need a spacer, you just buy an extra 2 set of o rings and put one o ring between the fuel rail and the injector. Again, why none of the old school "gurus" have no figured this out yet i don't know. You can buy a set of 46lb CFI injectors for abot 65 bucks. These are out of most of our engine's leagues, but this might be good info for any lurking hardcores.
Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that 42lb Lime green Ford lightning injectors are also drop in, being that they are true efi injectors. They are high impedance though so mayber not a great option.

2)On another less significant note my turbo FPR from an LH 2.0 turbo sysem has a different part number than the NA 2.0 FPR. It is and 83 240 vs a 84 760, but based on the numbers I would reccomend anyone doing a turbo swap to use a turbo fpr until someone actually tests to see if NA FPR's deal with positive pressure or not. I actually think they do, but I'm not chancing it. Once my FP Gauge is in I might bolt it up for fun and confirm.

Anyhoo just some thoughts that are probably only relevant to me. But thought I'd share what i learned.

Click to expand...

n/a raises pressure 1:1 just like the turbo one, but the n/a starts at a lower initial pressure.

really? sweet! the turbo one says 3 bar on it. I don't think the NA one has a rating but I'll check. if it does then it's just the thing to use with the bigger injectors!

Hmmm.. Turbo one says 3.0 bar, NA one says 2.5 bar.
that's like 45psi. I never realized the fuel pressure on turbo's was that high! 2.5 bar is 36psi or so whoch is pretty standard.
So...
flow is proportional to the square of pressure.
stock injectors are 31b or so, but I think tha is at 36psi? Hmmm...
at 45 psi they would be SQRT(45/36)*31=34.6lb
If I run 35lb injectors ar 36lb, that are rated at 36lb, I just get 35lb.
So, with an NA regulator, they are only 0.4 lb bigger! But with room to increase fuel pressure! I am a genius!!!
Dudes I am stoked.

CaptainBondo said:

Hmmm.. Turbo one says 3.0 bar, NA one says 2.5 bar.
that's like 45psi. I never realized the fuel pressure on turbo's was that high! 2.5 bar is 36psi or so whoch is pretty standard.
So...
flow is proportional to the square of pressure.
stock injectors are 31b or so, but I think tha is at 36psi? Hmmm...
at 45 psi they would be SQRT(45/36)*31=34.6lb
If I run 35lb injectors ar 36lb, that are rated at 36lb, I just get 35lb.
So, with an NA regulator, they are only 0.4 lb bigger! But with room to increase fuel pressure! I am a genius!!!
Dudes I am stoked.

Click to expand...

/me is lost

werd

" I'm sure if y'all could get a name for what the injectors are for... and do a cursory search and you could find CHEEEP and GOOD injectors in the aftermarket. "

Umm, I'm doing this. These are STOCK injectors I'm talking about man, As in, go to the junkyard and buy some. And they are not aftermarket they are from junkyards everywhere. Didn't you read the first post?

"Ford racing stuff that expensive? But 65x4=260"

That is 65 for a set For four. If you check my post I did say that. And where did you get Ford racing from? I said they are CFI injectors. Stock man.

".... thats damn cheaper than putting in a different fuel injection system is it not? You'll never burn up your stuff with right amount of fuel. "

You'll need a different fuel injection system for 46# injectors.
With REALLY low fuel pressure you MIGHT pull off 42, but it'd be tough.
I even wimped out of using 42's.

"I'll bet that I'll put some kind of high flow injectors that have excellent low flow characteristics (when fuel is not needed, it still flows well... the newer cars all have injectors like that... thats how they idle silky smooth but still produce 400hp"

No production 400hp 4 bangers out there. Anything close to that is V8's, and they have twice as many injectors, so they only have to be half as big.
And injectors are pulsed. As long as you're running quality low impedence injectors like the STOCK ones, with an EMS with good granularity, PROGRAMMED CORRECTLY it's fine. Or run sequential.
But there are a few Ford guys running 46's on ems's that are street driven.

"... like I said... hit up the domestic aftermarket!"

I haven't heard you mention any of this. The Ford injectors are something I've been talking about for months. And again it has nothing to do with domestic aftermarket, it has to do with German bosch injectors used in stock, OEM applications, and these are not aftermarket "Ford Racing" parts they're CFI injectors from Old Crown Victorias. You are confusing the issue. What i'm giving here is good info, I think you either didn't read my post careful, or are misunderstanding. I'm not trying to be a jerk but I don't want wat I think to be somehwat useful info to get misconstrued.

It was probably a similar thread like this back in the old days that resulted in people deciding what needs need spacers.

I love benchracing but lets not confuse facts with fiction. Theory is another topic.


"that combined with rising rate regulator and MegaSquirt and I'll have something that'll give very good mileage when the throttle's not past half way"

You would not generally use a rising rate regulator with Megasquirt. You program the megasquirt to add the correct amount of fuel based on a constant pressure with respect to boost. Using a RRFPR with it would in some ways actually defeat the purpose, just fyi. But I'm sure you'll read up on it some more before you really dig into that part anyways.

"never have a problem of going lean (MS will take care of it going either way)"

It's a programmable system. You program it to add the correct amount of fuel based on load and RPM. The reason it will or will not go in is purely based on how you've programmed it.

yeah i had found the out about the 35# injectors with MY injector rail, and you told me i needed a spacer so i thought you were insane. I can wait to get them in, so do i still need to do the tweak on the AMM?

Yes. The spacer is misinformation, as someone else said "I only said wrong becuase I was told wrong". I can't guarantee anything, but according to what i calculated with the fuel pressures (not that my math seems to be stellar lately ) they should work fine with just swapping an NA FPR in. Which is much easier than AMM tweaking.

Kenny,
I beleive you will find using the stock FPR a bad idea if you desire to get the numers you used. Generally injectors are rated at 3 bar (~43.5 psi) and I know for a fact that the turbocoupe ones are rated at 3 bar not at 36lb. so you would end up w/ less than 35lb flow, (also the whole thing didn't make much sense to me)
anyway lates!
Sean

PS -if you wanted bigger injectors the lightning ones aren't the only choice you could also go with supercoupe injectors that are often 38lb if you bought 2 sets you could sell the extra 8 off and probably get them for free.

38 might work w/ lower fule pressure, that's good info. Although my next upgrade would likely be to 46 or bigger.

It doesn't really matter what the injectors are rated at (and if you check out some of the flow tables around you'll notice there really is not a standard), as long as the volvo and ford are rated at the same pressure (which i'm sure they are).
As long as the ratio remains the same, they'll work. smaller injectors and more pressure, or bigger injectors and less pressure. As long as the square root of the pressure ration is the same as the flow ratio, you're good. And it pretty much is.
I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes.

Where are you finding these CFI injectors? I have only been able to find ford topaz CFI injectors (582cc) but they are side feed (screw that)! Anyway I have looked for CFI ford injectors and can't seem to find em what should I look on?
Thanks!
Sean
volvo_p1800@hotmail.com

Hey Shawn. They are found on pre-86 fox body 5.0L cars. Primarily the '84-'85 ford mustang, LTD, Grand Marquis, etc.

But honestly I wouldn't bother going around trying to find them, I'd go to the for sale board at ubb.turboford.org and buy them.
For 65 bucks it's hardly worth the time to pull them- for me anyways.

excuse my stupidness......

mostly due to the 1st big snow fall in my area, I was gone out rallying all night. so my head is a bit dizzy.

so I can just go 2 a Ford's dealership and ask for the 35lbs injector for a SVO Mustang and bolt it on my 744's fuel rail?

and wat is stock injectors in lbs??

How old of a brick are we talking about ive got an 83 turbo and ive pretty much got an unlimited source of injectors of the type you guys are talkin but im not shure that they will work in my car ? not wihtout some sort of mods anyway.

mr. chigga.. you can just go to the junkyard and remove some and shove em in your pockets .

also, whered you get that cool cartoon 740?

We're talking about EFI engines (IN turbo 740's 760's and 940's, 240 turbos are CIS though so of no help to you.
Sean

However if you want to find me a set of 4(6 better) 0280150403 injectors out of a 5.0 CFI engine I will buy them from you.
Thanks!
Sean
volvo_p1800@hotmail.com

Re last post: no they won't work in a stock 240 using k-jetronic injection.

Just to confirm, as a performance partsman, all injectors are rated at 3 bar, as was posted.

good to know on the 3 bar.
I'll be fidlding with fuel pressure quite a bit and will document what works and what doesn't.
Becuase yeah, with the 2.5 they may be a touch lean. Another possibility is to make the 2.5 adjustable.

Kenny,

The 2.3 Ford turbo runs 39 psi as the base fuel pressure. Vacuum/boost reference line disconnected. So, your 2.5 bar fuel pressure regualtor is probably about right. Displacement is displacement, the car doesn't know whether it is a Ford, or, Volvo. The 35 # Ford injectors are good to about 325 hp. After that, you are probably looking at 42 pounders to keep in the zone.

75282