• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

Fun With Coilovers

towerymt

towerymt

the real Towery
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Location
VA, USA
(nevermind the dirty wheels/car, and the average photos)

8" x 475lb front springs, 7" threaded sleeves, lowered about as far down the sleeve as it will go. Not on bump stops, but the slightest of low speed bumps takes up all strut travel. Drove it around the block only. It still turns OK, but I may have heard some rubbing on the 225/50's (ET25 front with ~1" spacers, so lower spring perch will clear the tire).

MVC-843F_dumped.jpg


MVC-841F_dumped.jpg


MVC-842F_dumped.jpg
 
I think my coworkers car is lower! ~6.5 inches from any of the jackpoints.
he's using some hacked up diesel springs. man I love the look of his GT.
 
with coilovers like that, does all the spring pressure go into the uppoer strut mount? So like, the weight of the car is supported by the rubber bushing that holds the top of the strut under the trut tower hole?
 
the poi said:
with coilovers like that, does all the spring pressure go into the uppoer strut mount? So like, the weight of the car is supported by the rubber bushing that holds the top of the strut under the trut tower hole?
Click to expand...
He has metal camber plates.
if you were to use the coilover setup with the stock strut mounts I think you could still sandwhich in the stock upper spring mount to help distribute the weight across the strut mount a little.

But with adjustable metal camber plates it doesnt matter.
 
the poi said:
with coilovers like that, does all the spring pressure go into the uppoer strut mount? So like, the weight of the car is supported by the rubber bushing that holds the top of the strut under the trut tower hole?
Click to expand...
All the weight on every strut car is going through the bushing (if there is one) and the bearing If it is the front). The bearing supports the spring load and the damping load.
 
can you say adjustable rear perches?

coolness, i'm thinking that your 475's aren't as crazy as i first thought....i might do 450's though
 
Nice! I've been dying to get my 242 up and runing so I can take some slammed pics. I hope to have better struts (revalved hd's) & 400lb ft 350lb rear springs next spring... to go along w/ the wider wheels :). Is that the most - camber you can get??

Looks sick!
Rob
 
long live Bert said:
I think my coworkers car is lower! ~6.5 inches from any of the jackpoints.
he's using some hacked up diesel springs. man I love the look of his GT.
Click to expand...
If he drives it, there's no way it's lower. 6.5" at the jack points is not THAT low, as mine is about 7" front, 6.5" rear, as of now after I lifted the front back up. Before, it was probably 2-3" lower in those pictures. I only drove around the block. It hit the bumpstops in my gravel driveway, which is NOT very bumpy.

ashvolvo said:
Looks fantastic, but I dont think you'd be AutoXing it like that would you towery?
Click to expand...
This was 20 revolutions of the lower spring perch, down from where it was when I autoX'ed last weekend. Before, it was pretty high...the control arms were only slightly angled down at the chassis side. This was probably 3" lower, and the control arms were heavily slanted.

oo4playmrright said:
can you say adjustable rear perches?
Click to expand...
I sure can, but I don't have them on my car. Only the front is slammed...the rear is how it is all the time now. Using 225/45/15 Hoosiers on 15x7 ET12 wheels on the rear with an MVP panhard, they did not rub. That's a 9" wide tire with about 8" touching the ground because of the narrow wheels. The same wheels on 15x7 ET20 (like MikeP's 780 wheels) would probably give a nice rub on the inner fender, either at the flat part where the top of the tire hits on articulation, or on the triangles next to the gas tank (I have prior rub marks on each). 7" and ET12 is a nice fit for a 240.

coolness, i'm thinking that your 475's aren't as crazy as i first thought....i might do 450's though
Click to expand...
It's the 7" threaded sleeves that give the huge range in ride height.
 
ashvolvo said:
As I said, it looks awesome, but I dare say not practical.
With a 450lb (correct me if I'm wrong) front spring what swaybar setup do you run?
Click to expand...
Yes, absolutely not practical. For show only.

8" x 475lb front springs, 19mm front sway bar (stock from my '87 DL).
10.75" x 325lb rear springs, 25mm IPD rear sway bar.

I keep changing things, and I continue to tune by various methods to get slight oversteer (spring rate, shock valving, track width, sway bars).

-Jamex springs (all 4) and 25mm/25mm bars = slight understeer.

-Jamex front, 11" x 200lb rear, 25/25 bars = neutral.

-Jamex front, 11" x 250lb rear, 25/25 bars = oversteer.
(all of the above with standard Bilstein HD struts/shocks)

-Jamex front, 250lb rear, 25/25 bars, revalved Bilstein HD rear shocks = oversteer, but better control at the rear.

-475lb front, 250lb rear, 25/25 bars = understeer, but phenominal turn-in due to the heavily increased front roll stiffness. Revalved Bil. struts went in with coilovers.

-same as above, with stock front bar = neutral to slight understeer

-same as above, no front bar (just disconnected at the endlinks) = oversteer

-475lb front, 325lb rear, 19mm front bar = neutral to slight understeer.

-475lb, 325lb, 19mm front bar, 1" front spacers = neutral, very well balanced with good turn in.

Next up, 25mm front bar to bring more roll stiffness (and understeer), more neg. camber to add front grip, remove understeer. Hopefully the net result is good balance and better tire wear & performance from the Hoosiers.
 
Last edited:
towerymt said:
Yes, absolutely not practical. For show only.

8" x 475lb front springs, 19mm front sway bar (stock from my '87 DL).
10.75" x 325lb rear springs, 25mm IPD rear sway bar.

I keep changing things, and I continue to tune by various methods to get slight oversteer (spring rate, shock valving, track width, sway bars).

-Jamex springs (all 4) and 25mm/25mm bars = slight understeer.

-Jamex front, 11" x 200lb rear, 25/25 bars = neutral.

-Jamex front, 11" x 250lb rear, 25/25 bars = oversteer.
(all of the above with standard Bilstein HD struts/shocks)

-Jamex front, 250lb rear, 25/25 bars, revalved Bilstein HD rear shocks = oversteer, but better control at the rear.

-475lb front, 250lb rear, 25/25 bars = understeer, but phenominal turn-in due to the heavily increased front roll stiffness. Revalved Bil. struts went in with coilovers.

-same as above, with stock front bar = neutral to slight understeer

-same as above, no front bar (just disconnected at the endlinks) = oversteer

-475lb front, 325lb rear, 19mm front bar = neutral to slight understeer.

-475lb, 325lb, 19mm front bar, 1" front spacers = neutral, very well balanced with good turn in.

Next up, 25mm front bar to bring more roll stiffness (and understeer), more neg. camber to add front grip, remove understeer. Hopefully the net result is good balance and better tire wear & performance from the Hoosiers.
Click to expand...

Excellent. many thanks for the details.
Do you do many AutoX events?

The reason for my question is, Do you think that you're driving is consistant enough to provide you with an accurate assessment of the changes? or does the course - surface, cleanliness, weather, etc stay pretty much the same to enable you to assess the changes.

I'm curious, as I find it difficult when making changes to the car between events to accurately assess if its me, the course or the car thats contibuting to better/worse times.

Interested to see what someone else thinks.
Cheers,
Ash
 
I drive the car every day, so when I make a change, I can feel the change in handling balance. When I hit a good setup, I know it. For the past few weeks with the 325lb rear springs and 19mm front bar, the car would push just a little when I drove hard into a corner. It didn't push much, but I could make the front tires squeal while the back was along for the ride. There was no rotation.

Now with just the wheel spacers on the front, I feel it's made a difference in balance (I tried this once before with wheel adapters on the front, back when I didn't have the long studs...made a difference to the balance at an autoX). Now the turn in is more confident, less like I'm going to slide the front tires. The back end now rotates around to help the car turn. Basically, the car feels shorter and quicker through turns. For anyone who's only driven understeering cars, it's hard to explain.

If I can get it to neutral to slight oversteer, but I've added roll stiffness, I would think it would be faster. Last year I drove on street tires, and I won't be doing that this year for AutoX, so I may not be able to make direct comparisons.

The slalom turns are the big indicator. I remember one event on the jamex/250rear/old bilstein setup where we had a long & fast course with a fast slalom. I could just chuck the car in, and the front would turn no matter what. If I were to overdrive a corner, the front is still gripping, but the back is sliding (happened mostly under throttle, as I did not overdrive hard enough to lose it strictly from steady state oversteer). I still have a cone mark on my wheel from when I did a half spin. It's pretty hard to spin a 240 in the dry, I think. That particular setup was the most amusing and at times the most scary. Braking hard while cornering fast was almost impossible.

This was the event, the same corner I think, but not the spin (I remember having a passenger):
grip-slide.jpg
 
towerymt said:
I drive the car every day, so when I make a change, I can feel the change in handling balance. When I hit a good setup, I know it. For the past few weeks with the 325lb rear springs and 19mm front bar, the car would push just a little when I drove hard into a corner. It didn't push much, but I could make the front tires squeal while the back was along for the ride. There was no rotation.

Now with just the wheel spacers on the front, I feel it's made a difference in balance (I tried this once before with wheel adapters on the front, back when I didn't have the long studs...made a difference to the balance at an autoX). Now the turn in is more confident, less like I'm going to slide the front tires. The back end now rotates around to help the car turn. Basically, the car feels shorter and quicker through turns. For anyone who's only driven understeering cars, it's hard to explain.

If I can get it to neutral to slight oversteer, but I've added roll stiffness, I would think it would be faster. Last year I drove on street tires, and I won't be doing that this year for AutoX, so I may not be able to make direct comparisons.

The slalom turns are the big indicator. I remember one event on the jamex/250rear/old bilstein setup where we had a long & fast course with a fast slalom. I could just chuck the car in, and the front would turn no matter what. If I were to overdrive a corner, the front is still gripping, but the back is sliding (happened mostly under throttle, as I did not overdrive hard enough to lose it strictly from steady state oversteer). I still have a cone mark on my wheel from when I did a half spin. It's pretty hard to spin a 240 in the dry, I think. That particular setup was the most amusing and at times the most scary. Braking hard while cornering fast was almost impossible.

This was the event, the same corner I think, but not the spin (I remember having a passenger):
grip-slide.jpg
Click to expand...


Thanks for the input. I know exactly what you mean, we had my 240 setup with slight oversteer. I dont drive it quick enough on the road to have tested it since the new front springs have been in.
AutoX is quite different to the circuit stuff I do, with surface changes, more off camber corners, etc so I find a lot of the theory you're using to set the car up most interesting.
Are you running adjustable front swaybar links?
 
ashvolvo said:
Are you running adjustable front swaybar links?
Click to expand...
Not yet, mostly because I haven't broken the factory links yet. I've been toying the the idea of building a custom front bar from Stock Car parts. The IPD 25mm bar is quite heavy. I think I can reduce the weight quite a lot with a hollow bar, aluminum arms, plus add adjustability and precision with the elminiation of rubber & poly bushings. It would be nice to change balance at the front sway bar.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top