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Old 09-29-2009, 12:43 PM   #1
nextproject
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Default Can i just run ANY chippable EZK in my LH2.2?

Finally got around to seeing which number ECU i have, blah its the 541, requiring that i take it to a competent electrical shop for modification for a chip. I also read that none of the LH2.2 EZK's are chippable? That blows. And the EZ116K daughterboard GB is closed, added to that the fact that many people that installed them are having them turn out to be inoperable afterwards.

What are my options? Convert over to LH2.4 and use their software? Doesnt sound like fun. I searched "EZK" and came up with no posts at all. Strange. When i searched "EZK" in "entire post" of course i got about 5 million posts and none of the titles seemed to have anything to do with this. The Chip FAQs didnt seem to help regarding this either.
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:53 PM   #2
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lh2.2 uses a hall sensor trigger for the EZK, the chippable EZK boxes are all LH2.4 which uses a VR sensor to trigger ignition, they are not interchangable.

you can leave it as it is, convert to LH2.4 or skip that step and go right to an aftermarket management system.
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:36 PM   #3
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so for the time being i can only run the fuel chip? any ideas on the kinda gains i can expect from that coupled with a 2.5" side-exit exhaust? i assume that i'll be able to run 14psi with that chip and still see most but not all of the gains? i guess i should ask fred this huh?
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:05 PM   #4
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try and find the rare 591 ecu and I think it will be easier to chip than the 541
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:41 PM   #5
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Then... who's chip are you going to run if you stick with lh 2.2??
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:23 PM   #6
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u can chip lh2.2 turbo fuel computers
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Old 09-29-2009, 09:38 PM   #7
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i know a competent electrical guy that can do soldering, to me the words "rare" = "money". LOL its a brick, aka, i dont have ALOT of money to spend on it (for the time being, this is what happens when one has 2 projects going at once)

I think i'll possibly get a spare 541 ECU and then try and get ahold of the chip/socket kit from fred. I wonder what kinda gains are to be had when there isnt an upgraded ignition chip.

On the other hand,

Can anyone point me to a thread regarding swapping to LH2.4? Is swapping the ENTIRE harness necessary? Are ALL the sensors different? (I assume the ECU, ICU, and MAF are a must) I know that since used parts are cheap for these cars that that may be a more viable option, assuming that having a chipped ICU is worth it, i guess thats the difference in torque gains "claimed" by fred on his FAQ page for his chips (HP increases are the same, but the LH2.2 puts out less torque than LH2.4-equipped engines).
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Old 09-30-2009, 04:41 PM   #8
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There are chip-able EZK boxes for the LH 2.2 systems. They need the older "012" EZK boxes, probably 1988 or earlier. The ones you want have daughterboards inside the box already, and use Intel or Phillips 8049H microcontrollers on the mainboard. The newer 012 boxes went with a Motorola chip and no daughterboard, and I believe they are un-chipable currently - I have one from an '89 turbo car with the Motorola design, so I know the switch from the Intel MCU must have happened before then.

Ask thelostartof, he's got some binary files for the 012 EZK on LH 2.2. Not sure how close to release date he is with chips for those.
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Old 09-30-2009, 07:40 PM   #9
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really? because my car is an '87, so it SHOULD have a chippable EZK? thats great news. i'll double check on the part number and get back to you. I'll also get in touch with thelostartof. Thanks for the info!
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:42 AM   #10
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Here is a pic of an older 012 ezk box. I pointed out a chip on it I thought was the chip that was the one, but when I took it off and tried to read it, nuthin. Turns out the chip is just a ADC converter chip. Any ideas? Is there a different lh2.2 ezk box to look for? It has the Phillips chip and I have others with the Intel chip, same story... Which chip holds the bin? I was thinking it was a 2732. Or is it missing the daugtherboard? There is that spot there...

Also I can make 541's chippable. I have the components here to do it. I also have an 87 turbo wagon to test with once I get a good head on it.



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Old 10-01-2009, 12:38 PM   #11
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i spoke with thelostartof and it seems that development of an LH2.2 chip has stalled for the time being. Looks like i'll just be running an ECU chip for now. anyone point me to an FAQ for converting to LH2.4? Just like to read it over and see if thats something i'd like to tackle
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Old 10-01-2009, 03:18 PM   #12
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Simon, that is exactly the correct EZK box, but you want the big 40-pin chip *above* that adc converter. That's the 8049H chip. It's the microcontroller. It's the only chip you need to mess with.

I have a photo exactly like that one. I had to look twice to make sure it wasn't mine. ;)

That 40-pin 8049H chip above the ADC contains the bin file for both the executable and the data files. Thelostartof might be persuaded to sell/give you a "test" bin for it, if you can find an eeprom 8049H chip to take that new bin. Best option is to solder a 40-pin female socket in place, to make future swapping easier.

However, the bin file that thelostartof has may or may not give you the curve you want. It was developed for a car that does lots of stop & go driving in gridlock city traffic. So it is based on huge initial advance (ie. twist the distributor all the way up to 14*-15*, as far as the slot goes), then the new bin-file curve has huge retard around the 3000 rpm torque peak to accomodate greater-than-stock boost. The original test car was effectively stock, just running about 13 psi on stock T3 turbo and stock exhaust. Phil Bradley tried the chip on his much more modified car, and did not like the results. In fact, if you got a hold of Phil, you could probably buy his modded EZK to play with, and save yourself some trouble. (I like the results of the new bin file, though, and have been driving the "test" car for about 6 years that way).
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Old 10-01-2009, 10:13 PM   #13
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Here's a shot of the guts of an 012 EZK from a 1989 car.

This is all there is to it, no second board or "daughterboard" folds open, like in the 012 box for 1987 cars. There's a 28-pin Motorola MCU at the top of this one.

If you open your EZK and you see this, you're not going to be able to chip it.

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Old 10-02-2009, 12:17 AM   #14
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but basically the bottom line is even if it IS chippable, there isnt really a proven, tested chip available for it yet.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:26 PM   #15
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More or less. There are two non-stock EZK binary files floating around, possibly one of them would work well for your application, possibly not. You'd have to be interested in testing it yourself, and if you want something different, at this point you're on your own for code.

If Megasquirt had the kind of support that it does now, back around 6 years ago, I probably would have done that instead. These days, I'd install MS before converting an LH 2.2 system to LH 2.4, but maybe that's just me.

However, hacking the OEM computers is an interesting project in its own right, and for someone like Simon, who has already gone so far as trying to dump the binary file from his EZK, I'm just letting him know that he doesn't have to re-invent the wheel here if he wants to keep going with his project.
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:13 PM   #16
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Yeah I'm ready to remove the 8049 chip and read it. I'll then have the stock bin to look at at least. I'm slowly working on 2.4 and 2.2. It's takes a while as I'm doing other stuff of course.

Simon
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:43 PM   #17
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maybe you could get together with fred or lostartof and see if you can compare the stock and modified files of the 2.2 versus 2.4, and try and make "similar" modifications to the chips. I have no clue how this works, i imagine the data on those chips isnt even translatable to me. I just know it'd be great to get a 2.2 EZK chip. If not then i'll do other things first and when i get to that bridge i may be in a better position to go with standalone or a 2.4 swap. I never realized how much there was that could be done with these cars.
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:22 PM   #18
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I opened the EZK box in my 88 mod 740 whith LH2.2 and tok some pictures

NA EZK nr. 011



From another angle, here you se it has a loose chip.
The chip has an "M" on it, like the motorola m.



Turbo EZK nr. 012
I dont know what model car it came from.
It looks almost exactly the same as the 011, but no chip socket.



Another angle



My car came whith the 011 ezk + 554 fuel.

I have acuired the 012 turbo ezk + 541 turbo fuel ecu. I am going to +T it soon.

I tested the 012 turbo ezk today, together whith the 554 NA fuel ecu.
It feels like the car has more torque down low, and it is a bit more responsive. I think that is strange, shouldn't the turbo ezk have generally more retarded ignition?

It would have been nice to have another ignition map when i +T it.

-Henrik
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Old 10-04-2009, 02:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uberhenrik View Post
I opened the EZK box in my 88 mod 740 whith LH2.2 and tok some pictures

NA EZK nr. 011

From another angle, here you se it has a loose chip.
The chip has an "M" on it, like the motorola m.

Turbo EZK nr. 012
I dont know what model car it came from.
It looks almost exactly the same as the 011, but no chip socket.
You have a 28-pin Motorola chip in both your EZKs. Cool to see the socketed design in your stock 011 box. The ones I've looked at have all been hard-soldered.

My understanding is that the Motorola MCU is a more modern design than the Intel chip, so it has security features that make reprogramming harder to deal with. Somebody may have figured it out by now, but I don't know.

You can see in the photos that the Motorola circuit board is about half the size and complexity of the older Intel board. So I'd guess the Motorola MCU by itself must be doing about twice as much work as the Intel chip.

If you want to play around with this stuff, look for an 012 EZK box from a 1987 car instead. It should look like Simon's photo, with the 40-pin Intel chip (probably hard-soldered in place).

As far as the car itself is concerned, any 012 box works the same on LH 2.2, regardless of exactly what computer hardware Bosch decided to use inside at the time it was built.
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:50 AM   #20
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My car now has B230F+T running 14.5 psi on stock 012 turbo ezk + 541 turbo fuel ecu without problems.

I would realy like to get the ezk and ecu chipped. I am considering LH 2.4 because i want more power, and cant find chips for LH 2.2.

-Henrik
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