Whiteblock in a 240 ver. 2 - Probably very little of what you'd like to know - Page 4

~~Jack~~ · 08-13-2016, 05:00 PM

We know but won't tell you

Leon_pp · 08-15-2016, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740atl

well.... does the ford unit bolt up to the volvo head?

full engine is Volvo one, so not pb to bolt manifold on it

Mr Wagon · 03-19-2017, 11:01 AM

Am i to understand that a t5r clutch set bolts right on to a 960 m90 if i use a singlemass 850 flywheel? I want a lighter flywheel and a stronger clutch setup on my 960. thats why am asking.

blkaplan · 03-21-2017, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Wagon

Am i to understand that a t5r clutch set bolts right on to a 960 m90 if i use a singlemass 850 flywheel? I want a lighter flywheel and a stronger clutch setup on my 960. thats why am asking.

Yes, better to use the 96-97 850R clutch though, its improved over the t5-r clutch.

Gary244 · 02-10-2018, 01:04 PM

I can get a 24v 960 solid flywheel. Will this work with the 850r clutch?
Im using an m90 gearbox
Sorry for the noob question

Lankku · 02-12-2018, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary244

I can get a 24v 960 solid flywheel. Will this work with the 850r clutch?
Im using an m90 gearbox
Sorry for the noob question

960 has a dual mass flywheel. You have to use 850 or early x70I flywheel(not AWD). I'm not completely sure if all flywheels can take 240mm clutch but most do.

stick70 · 02-12-2018, 06:09 PM

You can use a N/A flywheel, just get it resurfaced to accept the bigger diameter disk. 850R clutches are readily available, they cost approx $230 from the dealer iirc. If you were to use a T5, California custom clutch still offers custom disks for this setup.

240wagonguy · 05-06-2018, 02:52 PM

So referring to the first post, was this setup actually run with the cable clutch setup and how did that workout? I'd like to use my cable clutch if possible.

Karl Buchka · 05-06-2018, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240wagonguy

So referring to the first post, was this setup actually run with the cable clutch setup and how did that workout? I'd like to use my cable clutch if possible.

Yes. It was hacky, but it worked.

240wagonguy · 05-07-2018, 11:05 AM

As long as it can hold up to daily driving. You used a stock Mustang throwout bearing? I'm using SM 850 flywheel, 9" Ford clutch disc, stock 850 pressure plate.

I also have what I think is a McLeod hydro throwout bearing, some red anodized thing that I got with a used TKO600 I bought for my truck. It seems to be missing parts and I wouldn't want to spend like $500 to replace it if it fails. I guess my point is, would you go hydro if you had to do this again?

adamdrives · 05-10-2018, 11:09 PM

Thank you for the detailed write up. Very helpful for planning. Is aftermarket engine management difficult to set up because it is an odd numbered cylinder engine? Would it be significantly easier on a 6 cylinder? Have no experience with EMS but interested in a whiteblock swap.

stick70 · 06-05-2018, 05:48 PM

Just some general information about things I've run into during my swap. When installing the trans the first time the input shaft bottomed out in the back of the crankshaft. This is with a brand new (albiet aftermarket) input shaft. I've got one each of the Deeworks and Muellers adapters, and they're both roughly the same thickness so that's not it. I solved the problem by shaving down the end of the shaft slightly.

Next problem was the nose of the bearing retainer bottomed out on the clutch disk that I got from California Custom Clutch. It wasn't holding it up much (~5mm), but it was enough to cause a wtf moment and some head scratching. That was easily cut down to size as well.

I'm also running the Tilton 6000 series hydraulic release bearing, I think several others have done the same. I'm not sure if it's common with this type of bearing, but the lines inside the bell housing are CLOSE to the pressure plate. I drilled one set of pass through holes in the bell housing and had to relocate them closer to the trans due to interference. Seems fine as of now.

Hank Scorpio · 06-05-2018, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stick70

Just some general information about things I've run into during my swap. When installing the trans the first time the input shaft bottomed out in the back of the crankshaft. This is with a brand new (albiet aftermarket) input shaft. I've got one each of the Deeworks and Muellers adapters, and they're both roughly the same thickness so that's not it. I solved the problem by shaving down the end of the shaft slightly.

Next problem was the nose of the bearing retainer bottomed out on the clutch disk that I got from California Custom Clutch. It wasn't holding it up much (~5mm), but it was enough to cause a wtf moment and some head scratching. That was easily cut down to size as well.

I'm also running the Tilton 6000 series hydraulic release bearing, I think several others have done the same. I'm not sure if it's common with this type of bearing, but the lines inside the bell housing are CLOSE to the pressure plate. I drilled one set of pass through holes in the bell housing and had to relocate them closer to the trans due to interference. Seems fine as of now.

Good to know, I had the same issue when I bolted my t5/t5 together. It started with RSI and finished with Mueller. Do you know how much you had to machine off? I'm debating if I want to have the machine shop mill the crank a bit while they have it or get a thicker adapter made?

240wagonguy · 06-06-2018, 08:34 AM

Interesting. What input shaft are you using? I have a fox body trans and already did a test fit, didn't seem to have any issue. The bearing retainer does look like it's going to be too long but thats ok.

Those aftermarket hydro throwout bearings are tempting, in fact I have a McLeod one that came with a used TKO600 I bought for my C10. My only worry is if it fails then I have to shell out $400 for another one and it's aftermarket so I gotta order it in.

stick70 · 06-28-2018, 11:05 AM

I spec'ed out all my stuff for a '88 WC T5 from thegearbox.org, that's all I know about it really. I probably took just over 5mm off the shaft itself. It came out to be almost all of the chamfer on the the end of the shaft. My precision machining was done with an angle grinder and a steady hand lol. You could tell when I bolted it together, I thought it was just tight on the dowel pins at first, but then it wouldn't go in any gear at all.

The clutch is a 850R pp and that custom disk as listed above. Idk how much I took off of the bearing retainer, the Tilton tob doesn't slide on the shaft so I don't need as much as you would for a manual release setup.

So far I love the release bearing. It's paired to one of their overhung pedal sets and they work really well together. I ended up going this route because there are so many reviews of others on Summit etc. of problems with leaking.

stick70 · 07-23-2018, 11:17 PM

So! It's a long story but I now have a 1998 S70 engine in my car vs. the 1996? 850 engine. There are small differences you need to know about if you're going to go with the S70 (or newer I assume) variety for whatever reason. Remember mine is paired up to a T5 WC from a 1989 Mustang.

The end of the crank is different. You will not be able to use the pilot bearing that the early 850 engines, and alex butchka specifies in one of the threads. I used an oilite bushing I found at Advance Auto Parts, they had it on the shelf. The part # is: Dorman brand, #14647. It's a little long, but I didn't bother cutting it down. NOTE only the the OD is correct! It will press clean into the crank, mine was a .002" press I believe. BUT the ID is too small! You will have to take this to a machine shop and get it reamed out.

I had to cut down my input shaft again. I really thing the adapters may need to be a little thicker. My whole clutch assy seemed to shift into the bellhousing by 1/8-1/4" My Tilton hydraulic slave just barely works, it's on the lowest setting and the bearing just does come off of the 850R PP clutch teeth.

The bosses on the block were the same for mine, but were all tapped vs. the 850 block. One of them was an M8 vs. M6 or something, I cant remember.

Also, a note on coils. Autozone sells a set of 5 coils for a 1999 V70 for $200, and they come with a ****ing lifetime warranty. Don't use junkyard coils. We chased an intermittent misfire for days, messing with all kinds of spark settings. Changed the coils, fixed. My dwell with these coils is set to 2.1 ms. I get about 2.5-3 hours on a tank of fuel (10 gallon tank) on the highway and I don't overheat them.

The coil on cyl #1 does not have a mounting thread like the rest on the <1999 engines. You will have to fix that. I've done this two ways. The first was with a Keen Sert. I tapped the head and ran it in there, punched the tangs down, done. The second engine I didn't have one, so I used a reducing stud that was M8 on one end and M6 on the other I believe.

stick70 · 07-23-2018, 11:17 PM

Double post

Broke4speed · 07-25-2018, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Buchka

Power steering

I have no personal experience with anything in this section, so take it with a grain of salt. Running a 240 power rack with an unmodified whiteblock pump apparently works without issue. I have spoken with a Swede who has done this successfully. You will need to have a custom high pressure line made up by a hydraulic shop, and the intake manifold may need to have a small, unused mounting boss ground off to fit the pump. A new upper radiator hose might also be needed.

I know this is possibly something that has been thought of, but I honestly can't find evidence. Why not use the 960 high pressure line? It has a banjo at one end and the proper threaded fitting at the other. Also, the late 240 power steering pump looks an awful lot like the 960 pump...would it possibly bolt up?
[edit] It totally looks like it might bolt up. It's the same pump, IMO. The high pressure outlet is reversed though.[/edit]

1991 240

1994 960

It's part #7, Volvo part # 9191450. It's available a lot cheaper in the aftermarket too.

Broke4speed · 07-25-2018, 08:36 PM

Ok, this was surprisingly easy.
-remove pressure relief valve and flow control fitting from whiteblock pump (saginaw).
-remove pressure relief valve and flow control fitting from redblock pump (saginaw, no matter if you have the early or late pump, it'll work).
-install pressure relief valve and flow control fitting from redblock pump in to whiteblock pump.
-done.

Now it isn't necessary to make a custom high pressure line, and the whiteblock pump will output the proper pressure for the 240 rack

.
Maybe I'm the only person who didn't know this, but it's time someone wrote it down in this thread.

02-12-2018, 06:09 PM	#82
stick70 All the gauges Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Carolina	You can use a N/A flywheel, just get it resurfaced to accept the bigger diameter disk. 850R clutches are readily available, they cost approx $230 from the dealer iirc. If you were to use a T5, California custom clutch still offers custom disks for this setup. __________________ Kyle and the "Projects" -- '84 242 TI -- '66 220 S -- '89 Supra Turbo -- *'84 Rabbit GTI*

05-06-2018, 02:52 PM	#83
240wagonguy Board Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Weare, NH	So referring to the first post, was this setup actually run with the cable clutch setup and how did that workout? I'd like to use my cable clutch if possible. __________________ 1985 740GLE sedan winter beater Cali car.

05-10-2018, 11:09 PM	#86
adamdrives Board Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: NY	Thank you for the detailed write up. Very helpful for planning. Is aftermarket engine management difficult to set up because it is an odd numbered cylinder engine? Would it be significantly easier on a 6 cylinder? Have no experience with EMS but interested in a whiteblock swap. __________________ Feedback thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=332974 85 744 d24t @386k, 49mm ebay turbo @20psi

07-23-2018, 11:17 PM	#91
stick70 All the gauges Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Carolina	So! It's a long story but I now have a 1998 S70 engine in my car vs. the 1996? 850 engine. There are small differences you need to know about if you're going to go with the S70 (or newer I assume) variety for whatever reason. Remember mine is paired up to a T5 WC from a 1989 Mustang. The end of the crank is different. You will not be able to use the pilot bearing that the early 850 engines, and alex butchka specifies in one of the threads. I used an oilite bushing I found at Advance Auto Parts, they had it on the shelf. The part # is: Dorman brand, #14647. It's a little long, but I didn't bother cutting it down. NOTE only the the OD is correct! It will press clean into the crank, mine was a .002" press I believe. BUT the ID is too small! You will have to take this to a machine shop and get it reamed out. I had to cut down my input shaft again. I really thing the adapters may need to be a little thicker. My whole clutch assy seemed to shift into the bellhousing by 1/8-1/4" My Tilton hydraulic slave just barely works, it's on the lowest setting and the bearing just does come off of the 850R PP clutch teeth. The bosses on the block were the same for mine, but were all tapped vs. the 850 block. One of them was an M8 vs. M6 or something, I cant remember. Also, a note on coils. Autozone sells a set of 5 coils for a 1999 V70 for $200, and they come with a ***ing lifetime warranty. Don't use junkyard coils. We chased an intermittent misfire for days, messing with all kinds of spark settings. Changed the coils, fixed. My dwell with these coils is set to 2.1 ms. I get about 2.5-3 hours on a tank of fuel (10 gallon tank) on the highway and I don't overheat them. The coil on cyl #1 does not have a mounting thread like the rest on the <1999 engines. You will have to fix that. I've done this two ways. The first was with a Keen Sert. I tapped the head and ran it in there, punched the tangs down, done. The second engine I didn't have one, so I used a reducing stud that was M8 on one end and M6 on the other I believe. Last edited by stick70; 07-23-2018 at 11:30 PM..*

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08-13-2016, 05:00 PM	#76
~~Jack~~ Banned Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: The Ass Cheek Of History	We know but won't tell you

03-19-2017, 11:01 AM	#78
Mr Wagon Board Member Join Date: Feb 2014	Am i to understand that a t5r clutch set bolts right on to a 960 m90 if i use a singlemass 850 flywheel? I want a lighter flywheel and a stronger clutch setup on my 960. thats why am asking.

02-10-2018, 01:04 PM	#80
Gary244 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2017	I can get a 24v 960 solid flywheel. Will this work with the 850r clutch? Im using an m90 gearbox Sorry for the noob question

05-07-2018, 11:05 AM	#85
240wagonguy Board Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Weare, NH	As long as it can hold up to daily driving. You used a stock Mustang throwout bearing? I'm using SM 850 flywheel, 9" Ford clutch disc, stock 850 pressure plate. I also have what I think is a McLeod hydro throwout bearing, some red anodized thing that I got with a used TKO600 I bought for my truck. It seems to be missing parts and I wouldn't want to spend like $500 to replace it if it fails. I guess my point is, would you go hydro if you had to do this again?

06-05-2018, 05:48 PM	#87
stick70 All the gauges Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Carolina	Just some general information about things I've run into during my swap. When installing the trans the first time the input shaft bottomed out in the back of the crankshaft. This is with a brand new (albiet aftermarket) input shaft. I've got one each of the Deeworks and Muellers adapters, and they're both roughly the same thickness so that's not it. I solved the problem by shaving down the end of the shaft slightly. Next problem was the nose of the bearing retainer bottomed out on the clutch disk that I got from California Custom Clutch. It wasn't holding it up much (~5mm), but it was enough to cause a wtf moment and some head scratching. That was easily cut down to size as well. I'm also running the Tilton 6000 series hydraulic release bearing, I think several others have done the same. I'm not sure if it's common with this type of bearing, but the lines inside the bell housing are CLOSE to the pressure plate. I drilled one set of pass through holes in the bell housing and had to relocate them closer to the trans due to interference. Seems fine as of now.

06-06-2018, 08:34 AM	#89
240wagonguy Board Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Weare, NH	Interesting. What input shaft are you using? I have a fox body trans and already did a test fit, didn't seem to have any issue. The bearing retainer does look like it's going to be too long but thats ok. Those aftermarket hydro throwout bearings are tempting, in fact I have a McLeod one that came with a used TKO600 I bought for my C10. My only worry is if it fails then I have to shell out $400 for another one and it's aftermarket so I gotta order it in.

06-28-2018, 11:05 AM	#90
stick70 All the gauges Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Carolina	I spec'ed out all my stuff for a '88 WC T5 from thegearbox.org, that's all I know about it really. I probably took just over 5mm off the shaft itself. It came out to be almost all of the chamfer on the the end of the shaft. My precision machining was done with an angle grinder and a steady hand lol. You could tell when I bolted it together, I thought it was just tight on the dowel pins at first, but then it wouldn't go in any gear at all. The clutch is a 850R pp and that custom disk as listed above. Idk how much I took off of the bearing retainer, the Tilton tob doesn't slide on the shaft so I don't need as much as you would for a manual release setup. So far I love the release bearing. It's paired to one of their overhung pedal sets and they work really well together. I ended up going this route because there are so many reviews of others on Summit etc. of problems with leaking.

07-25-2018, 08:36 PM	#94
Broke4speed Board Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada	Ok, this was surprisingly easy. -remove pressure relief valve and flow control fitting from whiteblock pump (saginaw). -remove pressure relief valve and flow control fitting from redblock pump (saginaw, no matter if you have the early or late pump, it'll work). -install pressure relief valve and flow control fitting from redblock pump in to whiteblock pump. -done. Now it isn't necessary to make a custom high pressure line, and the whiteblock pump will output the proper pressure for the 240 rack . Maybe I'm the only person who didn't know this, but it's time someone wrote it down in this thread.