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Old 05-21-2018, 06:57 PM   #776
klr142
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I've only made it through just over a tank of gas since I did the work and never got around to doing the back to back tests.

Initial thoughts are that I was not blown away by the result of my SINGLE groove experiment. Performance is basically unchanged(expected only an improvement around idle and maybe under 2000rpm), but there does seem to be improved detonation resistance. So at least it has that going for it.

Initially the idle was worse with reduced idle vacuum. It was acting as if I put in a larger camshaft. I'm pretty sure the valves are at about the same clearance as they were before, but during the downtime the buckets did get mixed up and I did have to reshim a couple. One intake might be a little tighter than before, but I doubt it's enough to make a difference. After the car learned through the tank of gas, it improved and the idle is now higher than before, MOST of the time. Sometimes it doesn't idle higher and it has low vacuum, other times it's comparable to before but the idle rpm is higher(indicating it's more efficient?). I didn't adjust the base idle setting on the throttle after doing the work. Low rpm performance doesn't feel much different, and may have even felt worse at first. I may or may not be able to lug the engine around more at really low rpm and low throttle openings with less interior rattling, but it hasn't been the larger difference I was hoping for.

As far as the detonation threshold goes, I used to have a lot of detonation when running the stock fuel tune and the advanced ignition timing. Even when it was cold out(<40° F) I had problems running that "tune" combination. I have continued driving the car in ambient temps over 65° F without issues. Maybe even as high as 75°. So, I would definitely call that an improvement!

My thoughts on the grooving experiment as a hole(for this round), are that doing ONE groove is not enough.

ONE groove may work ok with additional chamber modifications, such as reducing the squench pad near the spark plug and unshrouding the exhaust valve. Both of which reduce the need for grooves.



In a stock combustion chamber, I think TWO or THREE grooves is required for optimal results.



Njål's head is pictured above in post #758 and he had the desired results. Coupled with a K camshaft, he had a massively flat torque curve with good performance and no detonation until PAST MBT while running over 12:1 static compression in a B230. SEE HERE

I'm not sure what I'm going to do at this point. I may pull the head to add some more grooves, or I may just run it as is. Or I may pull the head, add some more grooves and take another mm off the head to bump the compression up some more with new valve stem seals as at least one is leaking some.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:47 PM   #777
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Took NLMGG out for a beating at the track(car in signature's link). Not fully prepared but ran the thing anyway(almost half a tank of gas, sub in trunk). 12 runs in an hour and a half...

Current setup: the very mild ported General Leif 530, single grooved, head shaved 0.032", 0.036" headgasket, M47, 3.73 rear end, custom LH/EZK chips, H cam, opened airbox, full exhaust including header(unnecessary and not helping at this power level) and 17" Tethys with 225/45 DWS 06 tires at full pressure.

WEST COAST BEST COAST NON-TURBO TIME(car 224C):
2.209 60’:
10.492 1/8 at 64.46mph
16.532 1/4 at 81.92mph



Lower times later this year if I get enough time to play with it!
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:06 PM   #778
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Sounds like your car needs a fresh bottom end
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:28 PM   #779
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Yes, it could definitely benefit from one(shiny cylinder bores), but I'm not sure how that post about me drag racing makes it stand out? Hah
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:02 PM   #780
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Considering it was over a second faster some 5 years ago...
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:10 PM   #781
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That was with the car stripped, no interior or seats, 15" wheels, the big valve head with real port work, etc..
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:37 PM   #782
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Sounds like your car needs a turbo

FIXED
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:35 PM   #783
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Bwahahaha
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:13 AM   #784
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kyle, have you ever thought about doing an n/a 16v build?
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:41 AM   #785
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Yes, I have. No thank you. 8V makes more torque and sounds soooo much better. I wasn’t impressed when we had one in the General Leif.
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:17 AM   #786
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Stock cams, unported head, stock shortened intake, no extra compression?
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:24 AM   #787
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Correct.
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:27 AM   #788
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have you ever thought about installing a turbo? itll make torque and horsepower and still sound like a tractor.
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:59 AM   #789
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kyle, may i suggest that you install a turbocharger?
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:53 AM   #790
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I did think about it once.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:14 PM   #791
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I was all with you on building an NA motor. But watching you get small amounts of performance for a decent amount of work had me start buying turbo parts. Few more pieces and I'll be ready to +t. You move faster on cars, so if you started buying parts now I bet you'd be done before me.
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Old 04-21-2019, 02:18 AM   #792
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Originally Posted by mblue240 View Post
I was all with you on building an NA motor. But watching you get small amounts of performance for a decent amount of work had me start buying turbo parts. Few more pieces and I'll be ready to +t. You move faster on cars, so if you started buying parts now I bet you'd be done before me.
I haven’t really done much performance wise to my car in the hopes of more power for a long long time. I actually had bought some turbo parts many years ago and my oil pan has a plug in it for an oil drain, but that ship sailed long ago and I have no interest in turboing the car anymore.

I think realistically it’s pretty simple to get these up to stock turbo levels of hp(K or H cam if not something larger and aftermarket coupled with a shaved head and some engine management tuning - no intake/exhaust mods needed aside from a 2.25” exhaust), but it’s more complicated to get much more than that. I’ll find out one day when I put my big valve head back on with another mm shaved off of it for a total of 2mm off. I’ll be opening up the combustion chamber slightly to unshroud the valves similar to what I did in the General Leif recently, but I’m not sold on adding a groove or two to it yet.

Then the question is when will I ever get around to putting a better intake manifold on the thing...

However, hp apparently has been made on even the junky B230 intake before... I assume with drawbacks at lower rpm due to the aggressive camshafts, though.

https://youtu.be/IJUfQ1a5-JM
https://youtu.be/vgpnXDQLefU

Last edited by klr142; 04-24-2019 at 11:48 AM..
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:51 AM   #793
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New, more modern injectors for the car: Bosch 0280155868(or 0280155811 or 62203 or 24508208 or 24503406 or 2171389) from a Suoercharged Buick 3800 motor. Proper 15 degree cone spray pattern coming from an EV6 injector with the four hole nozzle. 12ohm impedance for drop in use with LH2.4 without an extra resistor pack like used on the stock turbo cars. Flow rate of 34.6-35.5lb/hr or 363-373cc/min at 3 bar of pressure compared to 32lb/hr and 337cc/min of the stock, later 0280150804 turbo 8V injectors. Running these injectors will permit over 200hp on E85 in the future if I want, and well over that with pump gas(not going to happen).

Here they are compared to the 850T injectors I just had cleaned for the General Leif. As you can see, they're missing the top groove for an injector clip. I may need to add that groove for the injector clip depending on the style used.

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Old 04-25-2019, 03:32 PM   #794
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i wonder how that will change your gas mileage?
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:23 PM   #795
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Hmm, I wonder how these would be to replace the d-jet injectors on the 140?
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:15 PM   #796
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I don't expect much of a MPG gain with these injectors, but we shall see. I do expect it to idle a little bit better and they'll support more power than what I'm currently running, as well as straight E85 if I want.

I was reading through my thread... Good times, sounds and hilarious Simon video... Maybe my bottom end really is getting weaker(why wouldn't it!), I barely beat my best automatic equipped 1/4 mile time this last time out...

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At the end of this movie you can hear the car how it currently sits... Sadly you still can't see much(yet another video of my car in the dark, haha). Good stuff from Simon, as always!

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3rd gear pulls... Dynojet dyno, so it should be comparable with my H cam dyno pulls last time, except for the fact that these are in 3rd gear instead of 4th. Which could be making them read lower. *sigh* I guess a trip to the drag strip is in order before I give up on this camshaft for now. It's just too big for my manifolds, and I don't want to spend vacation money on the car right now. Maybe if I get a nice tax return, but that would require DOING my taxes.






Last edited by klr142; 04-25-2019 at 05:26 PM..
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:24 PM   #797
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Hmm, I wonder how these would be to replace the d-jet injectors on the 140?
Aren't most/all the EV6 injectors high impedence? D-jet is low-impedence, so I don't think it would work. That, and the proprietary injector holds will give you hell.
Maybe you know something I don't?
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:53 PM   #798
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Didn't say I had d-jet on the car, just the injectors, running on MS1V3, but with a resistor pack. lol
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:07 AM   #799
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I didn't notice much of anything when I changed to the EV6 in my 245. Maayyybbbeee the idle quality improved about this much. Can't see that from where you are? Neither can I.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:21 AM   #800
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Yeah yeah, who knows. Having the wrong spray pattern in there can’t help though!

Here’s some random food for thought though:
This is my head.

We took the head after Robert went through it and raced it on the General Leif for one race, but I think it really needs another .040”/1mm shaved off of it. Or, I was just jaded by driving the car with a 2.6L stroker and higher compression in the car’s previous setup? Cranking compression on the General’s bottom end was around 145-165psi with a stock headgasket and ENEM K13 cam. Supposedly around 47cc chambers(roughly measured by Robert). Back when it was on this car’s bottom end, it had around 200-210psi cranking compression with the .040” head gasket(not sure which cam but likely smaller than the K13, maybe an H at the time?). The General’s current setup with the .123”/3mm shaved 405 head with 44-45cc chambers(roughly measured by me after unshrouding and adding a groove) has 193-210psi cranking compression with a stock head gasket and K13 cam. I want somewhere closer to that with this head.

Then I want to have it flowed again by a reputable shop to see what this head actually flows because the initial work and testing by RSI was all a failure. Granted, I didn’t pay much for the work and this just be why. Half assed. Maybe it partially explains for why so many were surprised with my lack of increased power over what some could do with a VOC setup.

One day we’ll find out, but I fear it won’t be an apples to apples comparison.

Oh, and one day I’ll get around to registering the car as a classic and driving it again. The tags expired four months ago! Poor car. I want a bigger garage, too.

Last edited by klr142; 06-20-2019 at 12:36 AM..
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