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Goal: e85, 400whp on redblock, upgrade list... your help+suggestions.

JKnuck6

New member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Location
Fort Myers FL
I know saying "HoW Do I gEt 400 HoRsEpOwA?!" is just stupid.... but I wanna explain my current set up, and my future set up that I am building on another engine. Hopefully this will let people know I am not full blown tard, and actually am shooting for roughly 400 running e85

Current:
1990 na + .63 China'bay turbo
Green Giants (R injectors)
4 bar FPR from the old dodge turbos
IPD Turbo Cam
Microsquirt, 15psi boost
WC t5 trans, 1piece driveshaft

Road to 400ish:
Upgraded h-beam rods (already in)
Ported 530 head (should be done this week)
Stock exhaust manifold being ported as well
Cometic Head Gasket
ARP Headstuds
Plan on sticking with the IPD Turbo cam

Questions/Suggestions
1) Injectors - I know Green Giants will roughly get to high 200s but not on e85. I know ID injectors would be ideal, but was hoping for something a bit more reasonably priced. I had "Snake Eater" injectors in before the Green Giants and they were a mess for both tuning and seemed to not fire correctly. I believe they were too budget of an injector. Thoughts/Suggestions?
2) Fuel System - I know the stock set up will not do. I have a single Walbro 450 to through in the tank and then obviously with upgraded wiring (i was told to upgrade the relay as well?). All braided fuel lines will be replacing the stock lines as well. Should the W450 be enough for e85 to get to 400, or should I go with something that flows even more?
3) Turbo - I planned on cranking up the boost, but I am sure this ebay thing will cook itself at some point. That being said, I love where it currently spools, however I am not sure it will be enough to get me there. I was looking at a knock off GTX3582 Billet Wheel Turbo .82 but I dont want to have to get to 4500 before it makes any boost. Thoughts Comments Suggestions
4) Transmission - I want to address this before people say "well with 400hp on a t5 you might as well through a grenade in the transmission and hope for the best!" It is currently a drift car, and will stay a drift car so the tires are rarely hooking to put the trans under a full load anyway. That being said, I have looked into upgrading the internals, however for the price of getting another used t5, it almost seems worth it to have back up transmissions instead of spending 1000$ to upgrade the internals on an already mediocre trans. UNLESS you guys know of a reasonably priced option for upgrades to a t5.
5) Intercooler - Currently running 2.5" piping with ebay intercooler that is "rated" for 30psi and 400whp. I am assuming if I attempted this it wouldnt be enough and would be the restricting point of the system. This isnt as important right now considering how easy all of that is to change an upgrade. Just looking for suggestions/past experience on 2.5" vs 3"

I am sure there are somethings I am forgetting but I figured this would be a good starting point. I appreciate everyones input, suggestions, and most of all the time you have taken out of your day to both read this post and put in your suggestions and experiences. Thanks again!

- Jordan
 
400 hp can be done with an 8V, certainly.

At some point, however, you're in the wrong... err... 'less desirable' portion of the HP/$ curve.

8V's are *GREAT* for cheap HP gains at first, then at some point, you're spending more and more to eke out the next few HP.

A 16V motor flows air so much better, even bone stock, that it starts off on the curve a bit higher, but with higher entry costs (since they don't particularly fit into a 240 all that well).

And even then, at some point it's simply a situation where a very highly stressed 4 cylinder *can* make 400 whp, but for how long? And how often? They certainly can and do, and some people manage to make them last a while doing so. But in general, you're walking a narrow path there. Any misstep and something blows up. Get *everything* right and it's still not going to last forever.

At some point, a totally different engine starts to make sense. It's just more time and money to get that in place, but then that (depending on the engine) can put you in a whole different HP/$ curve.

It all jsut depends on what your goals and intended uses and budget is. You might be redoing it all later if you don't aim high enough now.
 
How much $$$ do you have to work with? How fast is you car now?

I have a 245 with a 19t, IPD turbo cam, stock ECU and EZK from a 940 turbo.... The sedan with the china bay turbo and micro squirt blows it out of the water. I just think it would be fun to make it as fast as newer muscle cars. Budget isnt a huge issue, but I dont want to just waste money. Just that sweet spot of $=fun. I am also working on a ls6.0 for my coupe. The 400wph would just be drift car only.
 
400 hp can be done with an 8V, certainly.

At some point, however, you're in the wrong... err... 'less desirable' portion of the HP/$ curve.

8V's are *GREAT* for cheap HP gains at first, then at some point, you're spending more and more to eke out the next few HP.

A 16V motor flows air so much better, even bone stock, that it starts off on the curve a bit higher, but with higher entry costs (since they don't particularly fit into a 240 all that well).

And even then, at some point it's simply a situation where a very highly stressed 4 cylinder *can* make 400 whp, but for how long? And how often? They certainly can and do, and some people manage to make them last a while doing so. But in general, you're walking a narrow path there. Any misstep and something blows up. Get *everything* right and it's still not going to last forever.

At some point, a totally different engine starts to make sense. It's just more time and money to get that in place, but then that (depending on the engine) can put you in a whole different HP/$ curve.

It all jsut depends on what your goals and intended uses and budget is. You might be redoing it all later if you don't aim high enough now.

Hey John, Totally understand what you mean. I thought about the 16v, but yeah that gets into a lot of changing things up. Which would be fun, but not for this particular build. This is a simple drift car that I am just looking to get 100-150 more hp out of. I get what you mean by longevity, breaking, and repairing. It is not a daily driver by any means, so it wont be thrashed very often. Maybe 2 weekends a month a most.

Also, I understand able the engine too, i have a 6.0 ls that I am building for a couple as well. I just think it would be fun to toy with other cars, and then when people ask what the power plant is, it still just has its original little 2.3
 
Well if money isn't a big issue. Upgrade intake manifold(kl racing or niw manifold), exhaust manifold(ss tubular type, many options available), turbo( I guess you can get away with using a knock off but for how long?), a better cam( if you want to make big power, I just don't see the ipd cam taking you to 400 hp). Even with all these upgrades, its going to come down to tuning. Tune yourself or pay someone?
 
HX35 with decent twin scroll manifold should do this.
Have not tried the HX35 personally, but my HY35 10cm boosted already 1 bar at 3000rpm, in combination with the 90+. HX35 with a decent twin scroll header should be as responsive as your ebay turbo imo.

1000cc/min injectors or bigger.

Walbro 450 sounds good to me.

2.5" IC piping is fine, your air velocity will be below 0.35 Mach.

Transmission, clutch and flywheel is where it becomes expensive.
I have a M90 with 707 flywheel/pressure plate. Not sure how much torque it can handle. Clutch is rated for 550+Nm. Gearbox? No idea.
 
HX35 with the 12cm housing on my car was not all in (2bar) until 3800rpm. Twin scroll tube header, plenum intake manifold, heavy port work head with 48/40 valves, decent cam, etc. Don't see an HX35 on a stock manifold making 14psi at 3k rpm.
 
Well if money isn't a big issue. Upgrade intake manifold(kl racing or niw manifold), exhaust manifold(ss tubular type, many options available), turbo( I guess you can get away with using a knock off but for how long?), a better cam( if you want to make big power, I just don't see the ipd cam taking you to 400 hp). Even with all these upgrades, its going to come down to tuning. Tune yourself or pay someone?

Money isnt a huge issue, but like I mentioned, I dont really want to throw money at it to throw money at it for small gains/ascetics. I was going to stick with the stock intake and fuel rail for now. The madmen in Sweden are making 500 on the stuck stuff. Exhaust manifold will be getting porter in a big way. It is already shaved flat to make to aftermarket turbos. A nice top mount tubular exhaust would be nice though... Suggestions?

I was for sure questioning the cam though. I am sure I am looking in all the wrong places (the USA) for a more aggressive cam... Suggestions?

As for tuning, I have some knowledge but my neighbor is a master tuner who has helped me out A LOT with its current tune, and is always willing to help out when it comes to jumping on the computer for a couple hours.
 
If you don't want to shell out for a nice intake manifold. You can grab a b21f intake manfold and modify it(cost to do is $150-200 depending on what welder charges). The intake is a big restriction as is the exhaust manifold. At minimal, mild porting and upgrading to 38 mm exhaust valves would be a budget approach with not too much invested.

Kl racing header

https://shop.klracing.se/sv/artiklar/volvo-240-8v-extreme-t3.html

03657.jpg


Sweden exhaust header

http://swedenexhaust.se/en/volvo/36...gate-tial_mv_s_38mm_v_band/material-mildsteel

grenror-volvo-240-8v.jpg


KL racing has a nice collection of cams to fit the bill

https://shop.klracing.se/sv/artikla...765/motor-22/ventiler-3/kamaxlar-4/index.html

SS valves

https://shop.klracing.se/sv/artikla...40_745-760_765/motor-22/ventiler-3/index.html
 
Throw the stock manifolds in the garbage, put a holset he351cw on it for cheap, 1000-1600cc injectors (dont cheap out on this), something bigger than an ipd turbo cam, big intercooler, big exhaust, a decent fuel pump (walbro 450 or whatever), and decent management. 25psi or so should make 400whp. With a very similar setup but on a stock b230 intake manifold I made 350whp on 19-20 psi a while back on e85.

edit - cheap injectors are cheap for a reason...do you want to grenade your motor or make more of a headache for yourself while tuning because you decided to not spend the extra $200-300?

fake edit - save your money and put a v8 or a 1/2j in.
 
I know saying "HoW Do I gEt 400 HoRsEpOwA?!" is just stupid.... but I wanna explain my current set up, and my future set up that I am building on another engine. Hopefully this will let people know I am not full blown tard, and actually am shooting for roughly 400 running e85

Current:
1990 na + .63 China'bay turbo
Green Giants (R injectors)
4 bar FPR from the old dodge turbos
IPD Turbo Cam
Microsquirt, 15psi boost
WC t5 trans, 1piece driveshaft

Road to 400ish:
Upgraded h-beam rods (already in)
Ported 530 head (should be done this week)
Stock exhaust manifold being ported as well
Cometic Head Gasket
ARP Headstuds
Plan on sticking with the IPD Turbo cam

Questions/Suggestions
1) Injectors - I know Green Giants will roughly get to high 200s but not on e85. I know ID injectors would be ideal, but was hoping for something a bit more reasonably priced. I had "Snake Eater" injectors in before the Green Giants and they were a mess for both tuning and seemed to not fire correctly. I believe they were too budget of an injector. Thoughts/Suggestions? Buy actual injectors from somewhere other than ebay. No one really calls 42lb injectors Giant other than forum guys who want to sound cool
2) Fuel System - I know the stock set up will not do. I have a single Walbro 450 to through in the tank and then obviously with upgraded wiring (i was told to upgrade the relay as well?). All braided fuel lines will be replacing the stock lines as well. Should the W450 be enough for e85 to get to 400, or should I go with something that flows even more? What kind of braided lines? They make lots of different kinds, from different manufacturers that do different things. Youd be better off keeping the stock lines instead of some ebay stuff.
3) Turbo - I planned on cranking up the boost, but I am sure this ebay thing will cook itself at some point. That being said, I love where it currently spools, however I am not sure it will be enough to get me there. I was looking at a knock off GTX3582 Billet Wheel Turbo .82 but I dont want to have to get to 4500 before it makes any boost. Thoughts Comments Suggestions
4) Transmission - I want to address this before people say "well with 400hp on a t5 you might as well through a grenade in the transmission and hope for the best!" It is currently a drift car, and will stay a drift car so the tires are rarely hooking to put the trans under a full load anyway. That being said, I have looked into upgrading the internals, however for the price of getting another used t5, it almost seems worth it to have back up transmissions instead of spending 1000$ to upgrade the internals on an already mediocre trans. UNLESS you guys know of a reasonably priced option for upgrades to a t5. You gotta pay to play. If you pop a t5, get another one.
5) Intercooler - Currently running 2.5" piping with ebay intercooler that is "rated" for 30psi and 400whp. I am assuming if I attempted this it wouldnt be enough and would be the restricting point of the system. This isnt as important right now considering how easy all of that is to change an upgrade. Just looking for suggestions/past experience on 2.5" vs 3"

I am sure there are somethings I am forgetting but I figured this would be a good starting point. I appreciate everyones input, suggestions, and most of all the time you have taken out of your day to both read this post and put in your suggestions and experiences. Thanks again!

- Jordan

.
 
4) Transmission - I want to address this before people say "well with 400hp on a t5 you might as well through a grenade in the transmission and hope for the best!" It is currently a drift car, and will stay a drift car so the tires are rarely hooking to put the trans under a full load anyway. That being said, I have looked into upgrading the internals, however for the price of getting another used t5, it almost seems worth it to have back up transmissions instead of spending 1000$ to upgrade the internals on an already mediocre trans. UNLESS you guys know of a reasonably priced option for upgrades to a t5.
- Jordan

For the T5, adding a billet steel cluster bearing support plate is a great way to increase the torque capacity of the trans you have. You can also transfer it to another trans if you break the current one.

T5s are decent trans, the input shaft just isn't happy doing drag strip launches with big sticky tires.

You should have no problem with ~300lb/ft on a stock T5. This is dependent on the first gear ratio mainly. Adding the cluster support plate is supposed to increase the torque capacity ~ 100lb/ft.
 
Hmmm. You wouldn't happen to have a datalog file of a 3rd or 4th gear pull to redline, would you?
 
I have a he351 that has had the internal gate welded shut if you need one. $300 plus the ride and I’ll send it your way.
 
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