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clarifying b230f+t questions

T

tog244

New member
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
I have an overwhelming amount of info of potential things to do for a +t and I'm trying to compile as much as I can to make the process go smoothly.

I have an 87 244 DL with LH 2.2 with an H cam
I have the basic hardware, turbo, manifold, intercooler, piping, etc
I have the bosch idle air control module(pretty sure this is useless but grabbed it just in case) and jetronic ECU both out of an 84 GLT turbo

Can I simply hook up the turbo and have the car run alright at low boost (I imagine 6-7 from what I've heard) for now on the N/A ignition and fuel ECU's? is that a terrible idea?
I've heard to get the ECU from a turbo car from a close year to your car but can I do anything with the ECU I have from the GLT?
I've heard a lot about converting to EZK which seems like a daunting DIY project or an expensive new harness, but I have also heard that it wasn't necessary?
For the record, I have read many threads about these topics but I've found conflicting information and want to do this right the first time with the little time I have available to tinker on the car.
 
I wouldn’t recommend driving with boost and the stock computers.

You can hook the turbo up but leave the wastegate arm unconnected.

You don’t need anything off the 84. Your car already has an idle valve.

You will need to convert to the different ignition system. The chrysler system on the car won't deal well with boost.


If you will run lh2.2, you will need a turbo fuel and ignition computer from an lh2.2 740 turbo.

I don't know what you're referring to about any new harnesses, but to convert, you need the aforementioned ezk117 computer and a bit of wiring. Do you have a junkyard near you that you can source parts?

The EZK117 swap isn't rocket surgery. I watched a person do it in about an hour.

If you can do the mechanical heavy lifting in getting a working turbo setup on the car with oil feed/return, exhaust, intercooler pipes, then wiring shouldn't be a huge extra step.

What is the conflicting info you’re reading?
 
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Honestly, disconnecting the wastegate arm didn't cross my mind but that's a good idea to start assembling it without having to do everything at once
and I had heard I needed to on some posts and others didn't mention it so I wasn't sure how necessary it was
I don't think I've heard much about that swap but is it the "240 - LH 2.4 plus EZK 116 Full Conversion Harness" on https://www.prancingmoose.com/harnessconversions.html

I want to do this as simply as possible and without dumping a ton of money into it and with that harness it seems like I'd need a new icu, ecu, ignition coil, powerstage, fuel injection temp sensor, knock sensor, and maybe new injectors.
all of those various things combined with the price of the harness starts to add up so I was trying to save some money where I could (if this is the only way to do it, that's understandable but I figured I'd try to ask around)
 
Have you done any wiring work before? If you can follow a wiring diagram, it's not rocket surgery.

So, if you plan to stick with lh2.2 in the car you will need to do the ezk117 swap. You'll need to find an 88 or earlier 740 turbo, cut out the ezk117 wiring (at least a bit of it) and wire it in using instructions shown here... http://www.turbobricks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129382

Another option to consider is to do a complete lh2.4/ezk116 swap. If your current ride has the cranksensor holes drilled in the back of the block on top of the bellhousing you're in business and we can talk more, if not, it's a no-go.

If you're into spending money, I'm sure Dave Barton's kit is a great idea, but I consider it against the spirit of turbobricks to spend that kind of money on something I can get and do and learn for myself.

There's always megasquirt. For the same money for one of the prancingharnesses, you could have a complete running megasquirt setup where you can tune yourself and then the need for rare parts (740 turbo ezk117 ecus) is defeated.

If you can do wiring, you can do megasquirt. Sound intriguing?
 
Technically yes, but nothing more than a head unit or a gauge using crimped connectors which is why it seemed a bit daunting
and I had seen that thread but got lost on some of the parts- likely because I didn't have the items in front of me to look at
What are the benefits of doing this? and I can go look if you let me know what to look for
I don't want to spend that much money but it seems like I've already fallen down the spiral
sounds a bit intriguing, although I'm not sure how knowledgeable I need to be to do that, I've only just started working on cars- this 240 being my first
 
Yes, the amount of information scales with possibilities.


If you're looking to keep this as simple as possible, stay with lh2.2. You'll still going to need a turbo fuel computer from a 88 and earlier 740 turbo... as well as higher flowing injectors (think late model FWD volvo turbo injectors... high impedance... that way you don't need the ballast injector module).

If you don't mind dancing with the devil so to speak, keep the chrysler ignition (BTW...if you have this thing, you have chrysler ignition https://www.epartsland.com/products...on-control-unit-ecu-computer-1317873-81-82-83) and just keep the boost low. Be prepared to replace some headgaskets and/or pistons however. ymmv.

If you'd like a greater margin of safety, do the ezk117 swap. (ezk117 is the ignition system that went with lh2.2).

If you don't plan to go beyond the 5-6psi range of boost.... ever... and you have a good ear for when your engine is knocking then you might be done and you could do this whole thing on the cheap.


Boost is addictive however... you're going to want to start upping the boost within the first week of driving. That's when those headgaskets come in handy.
 
My grand plans were to use 850 turbo injectors I believe
and unfortunately, I know that ill want to reach that 14 psi asap

as fun as dancing with the devil, I think id be better off just getting the ezk117 ignition (i do have a chrysler ignition)
would you recommend lh2.2 and the ezk swap, along with a turbo ECU? (i believe that accounts for everything but correct me if I'm confused)
why would I go to 2.4, if there are any reasons/benefits
 
If I were you id buy an intercooler first before boosting the engine. That will allow as a first step for you to safely boost to 14 pounds. If you have the intercooler and the stock injectors for a 230 turbo you can do this easily. I was running 17 with a kjet. APC and terminal 11 trick. Here's a place where a 100 dollar apc turbo knock computer could land and help a beginner. I personally don't see any reason u need any particular advanced ignition or fuel mapping to pull 14 elbows in an injected b230. As long as you have the FI's intercooler and unit like an APC monitoring knock. I have 5 v70 turbo injectors if that interest you. I run low ohm units with my aftermarket ecu not them. It seems inherent that a 2.4 system is natively set up to deliver more fuel than a 2.2. Is the computer vastly different or is it generally just mapping.......

Regards
Hubert
 
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I've got an intercooler, the 84 GLT turbo had one that I grabbed (interestingly, the automatic from the same year same trim level didn't have one but the manual one did). Both cars had a kjet system so ill probably just get some high impedance injectors new. this is the first I've heard of an APC turbo knock computer and the terminal 11 trick, care to elaborate? I think (keyword) that by switching to the ezk ignition from my current Chrysler one, that eliminates the biggest difference between 2.2 and 2.4
 
tog244 said:
My grand plans were to use 850 turbo injectors I believe
and unfortunately, I know that ill want to reach that 14 psi asap

as fun as dancing with the devil, I think id be better off just getting the ezk117 ignition (i do have a chrysler ignition)
would you recommend lh2.2 and the ezk swap, along with a turbo ECU? (i believe that accounts for everything but correct me if I'm confused)
why would I go to 2.4, if there are any reasons/benefits
Click to expand...

I'm trying not to confuse you but give you simple, legit advice.

I'm not sure what else to say... if you want the boost, you'll need the ezk117 from an 88 and earlier 740 turbo.

the terminal 11 trick is for 84-earlier kjet turbo cars.

lh2.2 is not the same thing as lh2.4 LH2.4 and ezk 116 was used paired together on 89-later 240's and 740's. lh2.2 and ezk117 was used on 88 and earlier 740's..... 240's earlier than 89 got lh2.2 and chrysler ignition.

If it was my money and I didn't mind learning a thing or two, I'd do the lh2.4 swap but that depends on whether your block has the crank sensor holes already drilled on the back of the block... did you check?

Or if I knew what I know about lh2.4, I'd skip both and go right to an aftermarket EMS system like the megasquirt I mentioned before.

APC is an ancient spark warning system from saabs which is probably as hard to piece together now as a live session of the Beatles. You're not even there yet.
 
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That's why I'm here, you've been a huge help in explaining all of this nomenclature
so my options are keeping the lh2.2 and getting an ezk117 ignition, swapping to lh2.4 and getting an ezk116 ignition, or getting a standalone ECU?
I haven't checked for the crank sensor holes, what do they look like?
how intense would installing the megasquirt be?
 
tog244 said:
That's why I'm here, you've been a huge help in explaining all of this nomenclature
so my options are keeping the lh2.2 and getting an ezk117 ignition, swapping to lh2.4 and getting an ezk116 ignition, or getting a standalone ECU?
I haven't checked for the crank sensor holes, what do they look like?
how intense would installing the megasquirt be?
Click to expand...

top of the block in the image in this thread... if your block has the holes, an LH2.4 swap could be in your future.

http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=318727
 
I ran 15psi boost successfully on LH2.2 with Ford brown top injectors, they are low-z so they need the resistor pack. I also did the EZK swap when I switched over from k jet. Edit this was with lh2.2 turbo ecu and ezk.
 
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I can't tell what I'm looking for on that picture, but what benefits would lh2.4 bring with ezk as compared to if I got a turbo lh2.2 ECU and an ezk117 to hopefully run up to 14 pounds (or maybe closer to 12 reliably) with some injectors and maybe some better fuel pumps?

with that in mind how does this ecu look https://www.ebay.com/itm/320806150076?hash=item4ab1895fbc:g:y4wAAMXQ-KRRiIOA
it claims to be an 85 740 turbo ecu but it seems like they didn't make turbo 740's in 1985... what should I look for in a used turbo ecu?
 
RvolvoR said:
oh, if $390 is too expensive for a drop in brand new lh2.2/ezk harness, I suggest you find a new hobby.
Click to expand...

I just don't want to spend all this money to find out it was a sketchy way to do it and ruin my car- if that's what's needed to do it right then I'm happy to get that, but if I can get a standalone for a comparable price then I don't want to regret spending this money now.
 
tog244 said:
I just don't want to spend all this money to find out it was a sketchy way to do it and ruin my car- if that's what's needed to do it right then I'm happy to get that, but if I can get a standalone for a comparable price then I don't want to regret spending this money now.
Click to expand...

It?s not a sketchy way to do it at all.
Just grab some turbo ignition and fuel computers and be on your way.
Post up in the wanted section of the forum and you?ll have a set in a few days. There might actually be a lh2.2 turbo set already in the ?for sale? section.

With regard to an aftermarket ecu, you?ll waste significantly more money and/or have a worse running car going that route. That is unless you know what you?re doing with custom harnesses, and hours of tuning knowledge already under your belt.
 
tog244 said:
I just don't want to spend all this money to find out it was a sketchy way to do it and ruin my car- if that's what's needed to do it right then I'm happy to get that, but if I can get a standalone for a comparable price then I don't want to regret spending this money now.
Click to expand...

You wont find many stand alone solutions for that kind of cash. I usually always vote megasquirt, but for your goals, I'd look at the stock turbo fuel/ignition setups. Its cheap, reliable, effective, and if your goals change in the future, theyre still sellable, so recouping 50-75% of your initial cost wont be hard.

Plus side, less wiring changes, and once those changes have been made, going to a megasquirt later *can* be plug and play if you talk to the right person.

the only con I can see is the ceiling for power goals. Its a huge step up from NA, but has a pretty low ceiling as far as goals.
 
cwdodson88 said:
You wont find many stand alone solutions for that kind of cash. I usually always vote megasquirt, but for your goals, I'd look at the stock turbo fuel/ignition setups. Its cheap, reliable, effective, and if your goals change in the future, theyre still sellable, so recouping 50-75% of your initial cost wont be hard.

Plus side, less wiring changes, and once those changes have been made, going to a megasquirt later *can* be plug and play if you talk to the right person.

the only con I can see is the ceiling for power goals. Its a huge step up from NA, but has a pretty low ceiling as far as goals.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I tried to say earlier....:nod: Your English and grammar is better....

Regards
Hubert
 
cwdodson88 said:
You wont find many stand alone solutions for that kind of cash. I usually always vote megasquirt, but for your goals, I'd look at the stock turbo fuel/ignition setups. Its cheap, reliable, effective, and if your goals change in the future, theyre still sellable, so recouping 50-75% of your initial cost wont be hard.

Plus side, less wiring changes, and once those changes have been made, going to a megasquirt later *can* be plug and play if you talk to the right person.

the only con I can see is the ceiling for power goals. Its a huge step up from NA, but has a pretty low ceiling as far as goals.
Click to expand...

That's super helpful, I'm not too worried about a low ceiling for power goals, I just want a fun spooly car with a little bit more power than I have now

Got any suggestions on what to look for in ECU and ICUs?
How detrimental is getting a similar year to my car? will any lh2.2 and ezk11x (6 or 7 i cant remember which went with 2.2) work fine?
 
tog244,
Bolt the turbo and intercooler up get a boost gauge and pull 7 pounds first with the manual wastegate adjustment rod. The ECU and ICU isn't a real issue at your level and that's been said more than once. All this high level bs about needing to source lh computers and ignitions isn't really necessary to get going. 7 pounds is plenty of initial fun when switching from NA. If your current ecu is mappable and will work with the chip tuned EZK I dont see what the issue would be with using it for now and into the future.

Regards
Hubert
 
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