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Old 06-14-2018, 06:24 PM   #1
bread man
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Question bosch maf with microsquirt

hello, so first of all it is a map+maf setup and i was told to come here for answers (theres a legend about some maf wizard), was just wondering how to connect the bosch 0 280 212 016 to microsquirt, or its mostly pin 4 but if someone could verify what i know that would be great too, i also would need to know voltages for the pins and the burnoff´s timing, is it on above a certain rpm or is it on for a few sec after the engine is turned off?
What i know:
1- brown= signal ground
2- blue green= ground
3- blue red= signal
4- blue white= burnoff
5- blue yellow= +12v?
6- yellow white= intake temperature (not important)


thank you all in advance, hope someone knows
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:53 PM   #2
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hope someone knows
Someone here does. It's not me, but someone here definitely does haha
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:53 PM   #3
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This saabnet link has some info on LH hotwire AMM burn off: http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/faq/lhoverview.html
Quote:
Since the filament is located in the inlet duct, it becomes dirty and loses its sensitivity over time, which affects measurement accuracy. To ensure a clean sensor, the control system will heat the wire red hot for about one second, hot enough to burn-off any dirt. However, there is no burn-off unless the engine has run above 3000 rpm and attained a engine temperature of 150F (65.6C). This burn-off function takes place 20 seconds (4 seconds for the LH 2.2) after the engine has been switched off.
Edit: there's also a copy of a bosch datasheet calibration curve page for the 016 here: http://ipdown.net/documents.html

Last edited by bobxyz; 06-14-2018 at 11:11 PM..
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:45 AM   #4
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Breadman. I don't have your answer but I'm curious as to why you're pairing this specific AMM?
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:09 AM   #5
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thank you bobxyz for the links, they were somewhat helpful, now i would just need to know the burnoff voltage (and confirmation on the other voltages as well).
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Breadman. I don't have your answer but I'm curious as to why you're pairing this specific AMM?
im using this one because i have a 3" version of it left from my lh build, if you could point me to a better one (more modern without the burnoff) that would be some what "cheap" and easily obtainable
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:13 AM   #6
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The other issue you're going to run into with it, is that it reads over 5v as a matter of routine operation. you may have better luck with a hot film maf, or a ford maf.
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:23 AM   #7
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The other issue you're going to run into with it, is that it reads over 5v as a matter of routine operation. you may have better luck with a hot film maf, or a ford maf.
thank you for replying, i was told you know what ur talking about, so whitch maf would you recommend and in whitch vehicles would i find them (part stores need make and model or else they are lost)
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:16 PM   #8
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Lemme ask a few folks, I know they tested GM and Ford maf's and those are said to be well supported (they come in various shapes and sizes and capacities). Looks like off the top, a ford mustang GT maf is about 3 inches (maybe a little larger), and good for what appears to be at least 450whp, those seem to be fairly inexpensive state-side.
this guy used one from a 98 explorer (probably the same part)
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...?f=104&t=61772

the main thing is to dig one up that's large enough for your needs, is a 0-5v unit, and you can get a transfer function for. There is a reasonably good writeup in the documentation for using a MAF.

If you really wanted to use the bosch maf, I think ipdown posted a schematic for a circuit to convert the output to 0-5 instead of the ~3-8v it normally puts out, but then I'm not sure how you'd go about triggering burnoff, some kind of shutoff delay circuit tied to a generic output maybe
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:17 PM   #9
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Lemme ask a few folks, I know they tested GM and Ford maf's and those are said to be well supported (they come in various shapes and sizes and capacities). Looks like off the top, a ford mustang GT maf is about 3 inches (maybe a little larger), and good for what appears to be at least 450whp, those seem to be fairly inexpensive state-side.
this guy used one from a 98 explorer (probably the same part)
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...?f=104&t=61772

the main thing is to dig one up that's large enough for your needs, is a 0-5v unit, and you can get a transfer function for. There is a reasonably good writeup in the documentation for using a MAF.

If you really wanted to use the bosch maf, I think ipdown posted a schematic for a circuit to convert the output to 0-5 instead of the ~3-8v it normally puts out, but then I'm not sure how you'd go about triggering burnoff, some kind of shutoff delay circuit tied to a generic output maybe
thanks for the suggestions, however i live in finland where there aren't alot of big engine cars, so mustang parts are hard to find if there are any at all, im definitely going to go the ford/gm route but it has to be from some smaller normal car, i found this focus maf that i could easily get from a lokal parts shop, 99-04 focus mk1 its probably 2-2.5" but i could just move it to a 3" pipe like they do with the volvo ones? some part numbers in the description 1072308, 98AB-12B579-DA, would this be any good?
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:32 PM   #10
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you could, as long as you can get a good transfer setup for it. You may want to order the mustang maf from the states, and pay the shipping. they're fairly cheap (sub $100usd) new and are a bit better documented I think.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:33 PM   #11
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If you're not set on a Volvo 016 AMM, there are better options (newer technology). From the above ipdown.net link, there's a Bosch datasheet for a hot film, vs. hot wire, AMM. Quoting the datasheet:
Quote:
The hot-film air-mass meter is a thermal flowmeter. The film resistors on the ceramic substrate are exposed to the air mass under measurement. For reasons associated with flow, this sensor is far less sensitive to contamination than, for example, a hot-wire air-mass meter, and there is no need for the ECU to incorporate a self-cleaning burn-off function.
I'm not sure if this is true of all hot film AMMs, but certainly easier than figuring out how to do anything with MS after the engine is shut off.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:48 PM   #12
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i found out that there is at least one maf sensor thats universal to many ford car (includes mustang, explorer, fiesta, focus) 3L3A12B579BA, https://m.ebay.com/itm/3L3A-12B579-B...-/231872932055
i could get this easily and fast, just need to find a connector but ford dealers can probably get it if i cant find it anywhere
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:12 PM   #13
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Doesn't Microsquirt also support pressure (MAP) input? Those sensors are pretty cheap and may be easier to position.
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:11 PM   #14
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okay so i haven't had time to update but i went and got a (used) 3L3A-12B579-BA maf used on 05-10? model year (ford) focus, mustang, fiesta... like every ford. gonna plant it in a 3" body and it should be straight forward from there. (apparently its impossible to get connectors for it in europe so i have to contact ford or a scrap yard if i want to get it done this month ) https://gyazo.com/643abdfed241ac952e5ef69c3a5b0699 this should be the right way, i hope, thx for all the help I've got
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:17 PM   #15
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Doesn't Microsquirt also support pressure (MAP) input? Those sensors are pretty cheap and may be easier to position.
My question exactly. What is your reasoning for not going with a MAP sensor?
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:27 PM   #16
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My question exactly. What is your reasoning for not going with a MAP sensor?
I am, im going with both because of easy tuning, can better handle small changes to the engine (parts, wear), better low end power, fuel economy, probably alot more things that will be better than with a map only setup but these are some of the ones i've heard of, cars gonna be a summer cruiser so fuel economy and low end response is quite important
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:09 AM   #17
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https://goo.gl/images/G4ByxK

Bosch hfm5 could be an alternative too. Found in volvo t6 etc. There is one bigger version even that is used in trucks and it supports up to 1ton of air per hour. Not that expensive either!
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Old 06-26-2018, 04:11 AM   #18
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so, now its just one last thing and everything should be good. does anyone know where i could get the maf curve for the 05-10 model mustangs (gt or gt500). then i could plant it in a 80mm (3.14") body for the gt curve or 86mm (3.38") body for the gt500 curve
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Old 06-29-2018, 11:42 AM   #19
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I would peruse the msextra forums and work from there
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