Tom MarVolvo Riddle: My 122 SS build.

PAULDRIVER said:

Excellent work !

Love it

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Thanks!

Another crazy, spinning tale of my own inadequacy. If any of you are/know a hardcore Nissan guy, I could use some input.

I have yet to fully flesh this out, but here's where I've been dumb. What I know so far: The rears subframe of an S13 (a first gen 240sx for those that didn't drive import sport compacts in high school) is remarkably similar to the rear subframe of the Z32 (the second gen 300zx) as far as the control arms, etc. Also, the track width of the Z32 subframe is another 2" wider than the already-way-wider-than-the-volvo S13 subframe. The struts lean way in comparatively.

What I don't know: the geometry differences between the two. They could be the same, they could be different even with the same parts (anti-dive, etc is a positional thing). I won't know til I measure them, which will be hard lol.

Why it matters: If they're similar enough, I can simply throw the S13 subframe in the parts bin, and I can swap in the entire Z32 subframe since it would have the better axles. Where I'm dumb: If I had had this thought before, I wouldn't have dismantled most of the subframe before dropping it:





Wouldn't have pulled the diff and brakes if I'd known I was gonna drop the whole damn thing.

For what it's worth, there are some very old looking KYB shocks on this car, so that's a plus lol.

Anyone know anything about the handling capabilities of a z32/300zx? Not sure if they're renowned for cornering prowess. Is it better than/the same as/worse than the s13 subframe?

BTW, I am planning on this car being a corner carver/daily driver. Not gonna be a time attacker, not gonna be a cruiser, not gonna be a dragster. Just a fast, highly capable handling, fun to drive, hand built machine.

Here's some crude, roughed in photoshop rendering. You can see the larger hood, barely see a ducktail spoiler from this angle. Just a good concept pass. Not sold on the fender shape exactly (these are from a 50's ish Ford Anglia), but totally sold on the concept.



Again, that's just a rough pass. I took a bit (only a wee bit, mind you) more time on this angle. It's the same car I found on google images, but I've color shifted both to blue, which is close, but not exactly, like the color I have in mind. Here you can better see the ducktail. I really like them on classics. They're subtle, but classy IMO. Even with this rough stretching and pasting, I think this could be pretty dang awesome.



Rendering this bad boy makes me so flipping motivated, lol. I will still need better bumpers if I were to make it like this. I'd be stoked if it came out this good. Also, this makes me think I just need to suck it up and buy bigger rims and tires. My 225 cross sections aren't gonna do me any favors with a 350whp goal...Beefier the better, right?

This is cool!

i am doing a similar suspension swap, but on a 240

Cool. I'm following this Voldemort-Volvo. I like the fenders in that 2nd rendering you did with the Volvo schematic/diagram. No way I could do any of that work.

6thousandths said:

This is cool!

i am doing a similar suspension swap, but on a 240

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I know! I love your build! You happen to know anything about the rear subframe of the 300zx vs the s13? I know s14/15 are superior in terms of geometry, but I don't know anything about where the 300zx is on the food chain of nissan subframes lol.

DanMarino said:

Cool. I'm following this Voldemort-Volvo. I like the fenders in that 2nd rendering you did with the Volvo schematic/diagram. No way I could do any of that work.

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Meaning the widebodyish one? I couldn't figure out a good way to photo shop it so it makes me nervous about building it from scratch. It does look pretty dope as a sketch, but photoshop is a much more reliable way of seeing if something will look good as a concept.

As far as the difficulty, I have literally never done anything this crazy, but the concept of working fenders from scratch isn't that hard. I plan on working from foam, sculpting to the right look, bondo, primer, then I can use that foam shell for a plug to make a mold from. That means I could pull multiple fenders from the molds if they turn out right. I did honestly think about finding some metal fenders from a classic car and cutting them up to fit the contour of the 122, but that actually seems harder since you can't go back if you mess up the cut.

So, got the transmission out yesterday. Golly jeepers! What in the wide world of sports were Nissan thinking with this bellhousing? I honestly don't know how one would EVER remove one of these transmissions without doing what I had to do. No room for a wrench, no room for a socket, no access from above (intake manifold and exhaust manifold and oddly the steering shaft are all in the way). Luckily, I only tried so many times before doing what I shoulda did from the get go:





That window I cut out is right where the HVAC distributor and heater core was. You can see about 3 inches of clearance between the firewall I cut and the transmission bolts. At that angle I couldn't fit any tool in there that would remove that bolt lol. This was the "elegant" solution.

Honestly don't know how you could get to these in that tight of a space. Super frustrating. Thing was like wrestling an alligator all by myself when I finally got all the bolts loose. Starter is also impossible to remove without dropping the whole exhaust off passenger side. Oh well, you can see the transmission between my legs (which I had to drag out the back of the car because it's so yuge) in this pick as my lovely wife stole a photo of the look of triumph and grease.

Some measurements and comparison.







As I suspected, many of the parts are identical (this doesn't determine much as far as performance is concerned). That means I have to get the shell of this car outta the way, then I'll be able to measure the angles of the components on the suspension and measure their travel and such.

In the mean time, I'm going to make a negative jig of the suspension, rob a few more goodies off this 300zx and then send it to the scrap yard.

Also, read up some good info on how to make the A/C work. I can wire a switch directly to this guy:

It has a dual pressure switch right on there, which will ground when appropriate, which will then have to go through this guy:


which will go to the compressor on the Chevy (assuming it works).
Also, grabbed this radiator

and condenser.


Almost positive the condenser is fried and leaking. Took some damage during the crash that beached this whale, but a water test will reveal much.

Also, how annoying were those last few photos?

Been a bit since an update! I've been busy as a me!

So, 300zx had to go bye bye. Tow driver (from previous experience) can only get so far down my driveway because of an awning I have *stupidly* affixed to my door to "keep rain out" or something that isn't as cool as allowing tow trucks to get further in it. Anyway, I needed to move the Z, which had a front end, engine and wheels on hubs with no brakes, and no rear end. So, I quickly welded up some awesome supports.




Quick note about TIG welding in a hurry: you can't TIG weld in a hurry. Also, that's the second dolly that broke. The weight was sagging to the left due to a flat front tire and WAY too thin gauge metal for supporting the weight of even a stripped car.

The metal was as thin a gauge as you can buy and was insanely not strong enough. But, I didn't want the rear end to be scraping on the ground or riding on dolly's at that steep of an angle, so this was my solution, lol. It literally had to go 5 feet backwards...and that's literally how long it lasted.

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It broke onto the tow truck...just like I planned...right...Off she went anyway.



On to the 5.3. I was told this is 2003 with very low miles, but as I stripped it down, I wasn't encouraged.




However, I took off the valve cover and took only this and another even-worse-even-closer shot of the springs. MAN that's clean. I'm tempted to be optimistic here.



I'll finish tear down soon, but if the crank and rods look this good, I doubt I'll go through the effort of a rebuild! Definitely needs a thorough cleaning and painting, but otherwise, a solid block and an exciting weight off my mind.

For now, I'm working on getting everything cleaned, painted and read for transplant in the coming months. I have to spend a bunch of time placing the volvo in the right spot after that. It probably won't move under its own power for a very long time. Unless you count gravity as its own power. Which I never do.

Been a hot minute. I've been doing some extremely boring things that are necessary, long and hard. Which was also the name of my sextape.

Firstly, I've been upgrading my collection of Harbor Freight Heroism.



to take out these:



from those:



I initially tried a ball joint press (giant C-clamp looking thing) which has adequate torque but has a hard time lining up with the grooves and stamps in the control arms. So, off to HF and away with a couple hundred smackers and now I can do whatever things the bourgeoisie do with their fancy presses.

I also bought a blasting cabinet while I was there. They redesigned the dreaded pickup tube. Now my only issues are media clogging which is only harbor freights' fault because that's also where I bought the media.



Also added a dessicant air dryer made from ultra safe, never enraging the internet, PVC and dessicant air indicator beads. I've got almost a gallon of them in there. It's incased in a "ballistic" shield of cheap wood and gives me unlimited bone-dry air.



One I had that press, I thought the hard work was over. I got these



Energy suspension kit. And wouldn't you know it? They're IMPOSSIBLE to get in. Don't know if energy is just not deserving of its reputation as a quality part maker, or if I am overly deserving of my reputation of infinitely decreasing competence.

I've read forums on Nissan energy suspension kits, watched videos about it and have concluded it's just going to be super, super hard. You can cut them and roll them and put them in, but that's not the way for me. So, my next thought is to press them in as far as I can and then squeeze them with a modified channel lock plier covered in tape.

Then I took some glamour shots.

Looking good - not sure about the flair idea...can you find something that would fit with the style of the car a little better. How about a Dodge Omni fender or early A1 VW?

Canuck said:

Looking good - not sure about the flair idea...can you find something that would fit with the style of the car a little better. How about a Dodge Omni fender or early A1 VW?

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The flairs have to be about 4 inches straight out from the fenders, I don't know if I can get the little fender flares such as those to look anything but awkward. I'm planning on making them from scratch and using foam to shave out the plug for a composite finished piece. I have no idea how any of it will look, but I've seen guys do large versions of the flairs you've suggested and they look swollen and a bit too much for me.

SML said:

The flairs have to be about 4 inches straight out from the fenders, I don't know if I can get the little fender flares such as those to look anything but awkward. I'm planning on making them from scratch and using foam to shave out the plug for a composite finished piece. I have no idea how any of it will look, but I've seen guys do large versions of the flairs you've suggested and they look swollen and a bit too much for me.

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Why not shrink the track a few inches and go that way?

Canuck said:

Why not shrink the track a few inches and go that way?

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Ha! You make that sound easy If I were fabricating all of the mounts for the control arms, I would. I'm simply swapping subframes and the track width is about 7 inches wider from tire center to tire center when going from Volvo to Nissan. I'm going slightly meatier than the stock Amazon with the tires, so the total on each side to get good coverage and leave myself some room to go even bigger (in the rear especially) would round up to 5 or so inches on each side.

Personally, I like the idea of huge flares and having the character of a classic. The Super Amazon has the most utilitarian flares I've seen and those too were more like Semi-truck mudflaps curved around the whole tire and they still look wonderful because they don't have too much an angle on the top. If you look at how high the flare would have to go to have an angle like the VW flares you mentioned, I wouldn't have much fender left. In the end, I wonder if the only way to tell is to scratch out some foam mockups and maybe then I can do one side one way and the other side another to see which physically looks better, eh?

About that. I am going to have to find a shop around here to make some frame rails for me. What I failed to measure on either of the Nissans was the total height of the subframe from the ground when mounted and under load. It technically is variable with ride height, but I'm aiming for stock "ride height" so the geometry works its best, then I thought I could physically mount the subframe slightly higher than stock and that would result in a "lowered" or lower look of how the tire tucks in the fenders, while not being slammed too much in reference to the geometry. What are your thoughts on this? I'm not sure what to take into account when I go to install the subframe, in the front particularly, since I'll be ordering frame rails to suit the need. I don't know maths enough to figure out how heavy it will be and how much of that weight will compress what amount of coilover, etc. Hope I laid it out in a way that makes sense. It's something I should start thinking about.

Foam mock ups is a very good idea. Just get some expanding foam and packing tape and a little cardboard and an electric carving knife and you're home free. At least you can look at it and see how it looks to you - it is your car after all.

Most trailer fabrication shops will do up frame rails for you - price usually isn't all that bad. I've made simple U-channel frames from bent 10 ga for pretty reasonable money. I had Art Morrison bend my rails - that's a little more spendy but sure was nice. Lowering the car into the subframe is the best solution for maintaining the geometry. Just set the car on the subframe and decide on the "stance" and then work out the distances from there. I won't tell you this is easy. It isn't.

Depending on your level of comfort with welding, you can also just cut and weld a frame. It's done this way a lot in some stock car classes. Work with 3" X 2" by 120 wall tube (cold rolled if you can get it) and then either graft the existing inner fenders on to that or do something different up front (the inner fenders make for a very tight engine bay). If you do that - just remember that the stock frames are prone to cracking at about the firewall intersection. This is due to the rather optimistic approach that Volvo took to engineering that front end. Fine for 100 hp and a gravel road, but not really up to modern standards. Look at the way more modern cars (even a 240) have treated the upper fender support beam. Quite different. That's why this is all coming off my car...but I'm a bit nuts that way.

Thanks for the advice. I saw the B is for Build guy do his own frame rails and thought it was downright scary! I know it's safe, especially the way he doubled it up, but I assume that's the way JEGS and other places intend for it to happen when they sell their frame kits. It's definitely on the table for me. I'm very scared of that process, but I know it's an important one.

I may have mentioned this, but I am planning on going full tube in the front and eliminating the inner fenders. I am getting better and better with welding every day. Keep giving myself more things to practice. One interesting thing is that the better I get with TIG, the worse I get with MIG, but I suspect that's just lack of doing MIG in quite a while haha.

A quick update as well. I was having a hell of a time with the poly bushing kit I received. I knew they'd be hard, but this was just not happening. I couldn't find a single method I liked for how to get them in so I devised my own and made a video about it because I thought it might help some other shmuck like me:

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I basically took some of the bushings to home depot, got some pipe nipples to use as a sleeve and driver and they went in like butter.

Now, on to the next impossible task. My rear half-shafts from the 300zx are so stuck in the knuckles that I'm convinced I'm missing something in the disassembly. I'll post pics later, but for now suffice it to say between the bushings and these shafts taking as long as they are, I'd say it's caused about a month of head-scratching and delay. Not fun, but hey, if it was easy, everyone would do it!

That frame on B is for Build is scary. Cheap steel, no weld prep...I wouldn't drive that thing in anger - it will fight back. I'd rather not watch that guy build another car like this...millions would disagree.

Can you get the half shafts in your press? They'll come out - service technicians do it with BFH and no regrets.

Canuck said:

That frame on B is for Build is scary. Cheap steel, no weld prep...I wouldn't drive that thing in anger - it will fight back. I'd rather not watch that guy build another car like this...millions would disagree.

Can you get the half shafts in your press? They'll come out - service technicians do it with BFH and no regrets.

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Glad to know I wasn't wrong in my initial fear of the B is for Build frame. So, is the design okay, but the steel and prep not in your view? I kinda just thought frame rails had to be bent, so when I saw them cut and welded like that it rubbed me wrong, but steel cut and welded at an angle probably has incredible strength still.

I will try to fit it in the press. I'm thinking axle nut facing the jack press with the knuckle below might be the number. I have it soaking in liquid wrench at the moment, so thanks for the idea!

Try acetone and ATF for a cheaper alternative to other penetrating oils...and you can create a dunk take of the mix for $20.

Ya, weld prep on about 90% of stuff I see on YouTube is frightening. When I did my rails, I ran two passes with TIG - a root pass where I'm key holing the entire run and then a cap pass. Mill scale cleaned off and weld prep done with care. I added gusset plates to the inside of the joint and button welded (again - two pass with the TIG) and I know what I'm doing. Frames are cut and welded together all the time, but the skill of the welder does matter. So no down hill MIG or single pass TIG with no prep. Buddy doesn't even clean his stuff off. You can also have curved sections waterjet cut and then cap them top and bottom if you don't want to have a weld mid spar.

For a 122 - bring your main rails back at least to the A-Pillar intersection or better yet, take them all the way back to the cross member under the front seats.

Like this.





Which ends up like this...

Nice, I was gonna ask for that drawing. I thought I remembered seeing it on your thread.

As far as the axles, here's what I came up with:





The bulky part won't fit through the bridge on the bottom of my press and I didn't want to cut it up or go buy suitable strength material to make a new one. I thought this would work, and it "does," I just chickened out. I started to press it and very slightly bent one of the jackstands because it was incorrectly set on there. I put it back on there properly and gave it the beans and after several intense sounding cracks...still nothing happened. I might have to get a torch and an air hammer next to jostle it. I think I have to muster up the courage to just "send it" and see what happens. Can't use that Jackstand for anything anymore any way. I can't shake the fear of something catastrophically failing and flying into my body, but I'll try to get over it and try it again.

You can see how awkward it is as an assembly. I can't fit either a wrench or socket in to remove the ball joint to remove that lower control arm without removing the axle. Same with the hub. There's usually a "cutout" on axles to allow for a socket to reach, but in this case, it's perfectly round all the way...'round. I do have a new ball joint, so I could slice this one, but that still won't help remove the axle. As far as I can tell from searching and just basic knowledge, there's nothing holding the axle on, but I probably gave it 6 tons of force and it didn't budge or even make a sound. Just makes me think there's something I forgot to loosen or I just need to put more grit into the press to give it the old college try.